by Max Barry

Latest Forum Topics

New Hyperion RMB

WA Delegate (non-executive): The Pseudo-Fascist Bureaucracy of Corcetia (elected )

Founder: The Galactic Autarchy of Magna Hyperion

Last WA Election:

Board Activity History Admin Rank

Most Nations: 179th Largest Black Market: 1,331st Most World Assembly Endorsements: 1,344th+4
Most Avoided: 1,585th Most Corrupt Governments: 1,833rd Most Advanced Defense Forces: 2,009th Largest Information Technology Sector: 2,092nd
World Factbook Entry

Welcome to New Hyperion. It pays to pay attention.
~Founded October 29th 2014~
"New Hyperion, and its companion Foundation at the other end of the galaxy, are to be the seeds and founders of the Third Galactic Empire."

| LinkOur Forum | LinkPlebeianship Application | LinkImperial Service | LinkIRC Channel | LinkDiscord Server | Nationstates++ | LinkCurrent Game Time |


We are now a vassal of Wintreath. Though we remain active, all citizens are encouraged to join their region and Linkforums using a puppet.

All WA nations should endorse the WACom Delegate, Corcetia. The current endorsement limit for all other nations is 0, and is enforced by the Inquisition.

Embassy requests will not be accepted without first applying for a consulate on our forum.



  1. 2

    The Covenant of Fellowship Between New Hyperion and Wintreath

    BulletinPolicy by Magna Hyperion . 112 reads.

  2. 2

    New Hyperion Update #1 - 10/29/2015

    BulletinNews by Magna Hyperion . 122 reads.

  3. 2

    Law Codex of New Hyperion

    BulletinPolicy by Magna Hyperion . 168 reads.

  4. 3

    World Assembly Requirement Act

    BulletinPolicy by Magna Hyperion . 121 reads.

  5. 5

    The Governance Act of New Hyperion

    MetaReference by Laurentus states . 229 reads.

▼ 2 More

Embassies: Aura Hyperia, Wintreath, Warhammer 40000, New Hypertension, Hyperian Guard, The Confederacy of Free Nations, The Land of Power, Valtamrei, and The United States of Europe.

Tags: Featured, Offsite Forums, Independent, Multi-Species, Large, Social, FT: FTL, Role Player, Future Tech, Outer Space, Post Apocalyptic, Imperialist, and 1 other.Regional Government.

Regional Power: Moderate

New Hyperion contains 73 nations, the 179th most in the world.

Today's World Census Report

The Most Advanced Defense Forces in New Hyperion

Nations ranked highly spend the most on national defense, and are most secure against foreign aggression.

As a region, New Hyperion is ranked 2,009th in the world for Most Advanced Defense Forces.

NationWA CategoryMotto
1.The Imperium of The Conez ImperiumDemocratic Socialists“The Emperor protects”
2.The Pseudo-Fascist Bureaucracy of CorcetiaIron Fist Consumerists“Community, Identity, Stability”
3.The Imperial Free State of Terra NovamFather Knows Best State“Sola equitat spes”
4.The Dictatorship of The Great EvilIron Fist Consumerists“Obey the Emperor! Glory to the Government!”
5.The Aesir Empire of AragonnInoffensive Centrist Democracy“Under Odin, we thrive”
6.The Holy Empire of KalendariaFather Knows Best State“For Kalaria”
7.The Dictatorship of Imperial GallifreyPsychotic Dictatorship“Liberty through Order, Order through Strength”
8.The Holy Empire of Ferrum Sanguis Vis ViresFather Knows Best State“Ferrus et Sanguis”
9.The Empire of Venezia-UtopiaMother Knows Best State“Pax Tibi, Marce Evangelista Meus”
10.The Imperial Dominion of Romulan Science DirectorateDemocratic Socialists“The Empire shall Advance!”
1234. . .78»

Regional Happenings

More...

New Hyperion Regional Message Board

Post self-deleted by Futamura.

Princess Anna, our fleets are set to engage from your advised flank. With your forces and the Dysonian forces blocking their path, my forces on one flank, and the Meridian forces on their other flank, they'll be caught in a very nasty crossfire.

Aragonn wrote:Terra Dysonia
I'm going to fall on some English to help me understand isotons without looking it up. With the prefix "iso" I'm assuming the unit is used to measure energy and not force. Solid shot KEPs (Kinetic Energy Penetrators) use force instead of energy to cut through armor. Your duranium and tritanium hulls are rated for absorbing very high amounts of energy but I don't see a rating for absorbing force of impact. And I've oftentimes seen ships in Star Trek get pummeled by asteroids and come back very heavily damaged if at all. Same goes for ramming attacks. Given that these metals are fictional much like adamantium is, I'm going to rate them as denser versions of titanium. Adamantium will still remain the strongest metal alloy because of NH lore. Anyway, a solid shot KEP composed of tungsten carbide with an adamantium core travelling at Mach 15 (5104.35 m/s) to Mach 17 (5784.93 m/s) is going to hit with a force so strong it'll put a perfectly circular hole wherever it makes impact. There are physics involved with angling and whatnot, so it's not guaranteed to penetrate no matter what. But you can't sit there and tell me you can tank a ton of shots like that.

Also, apologies for being absent. I'm currently visiting my older sister at her apartment. I'll be back home by tonight, 10 PM EST at the latest.

OOC
Never said we could tank a bunch of shots. I said the tritanium-duranium alloy could take maybe 2 or 3 direct hits from a KEP-style before giving out. Dysonian ships are more squish, but their lighter construction makes them very fast for capital vessels and hard to pin down. Even managing a glancing blow with a KEP will do serious damage to a Dysonian vessel, and depending on the target area, could slow it down and make follow up shots easier.

Rationalist Science

Terra Novam wrote:I used a completely different method at that: instead of 0.7c, I went with meters per second, which I rounded off to 210,000.

That's correct, you need to do that or else your units don't match up. I just left it out of my written calculations (and also got lazy and used a premade Wolfram Alpha calculator that converts for you).

Terra Novam wrote:Also doing the velocity*mass gives you an answer in joules

No it doesn't, it gives you momentum at kg*m/s

Terra Novam wrote:And given that with numbers that big a single mistake throws off your entire result, my equations must have been whacked at some point.

Your answer would've still been essentially correct to 3 significant figures, which really was all you needed anyway. You might've noticed me rounding off about that much there too (though only at the final result).

Terra Novam wrote:As for the 0.7c figure, it IS unrealistic given what we know today, but keep in mind that when you ask a modern scientist abut gravity accelerators the last thing he'll tell you is "gravity waves projected along horizontal rails". The Novan MAC shell projector relies on some very funky theoretical physics (a combination of magnetic coils and said gravitic rails) that may or may not work IRL as their very principles are untested. But basically, if you stand too close to the business end of the gun you are going to just die when it discharges.

True enough. You can't exactly scream "realism" when you have Chaos gods and Warp incursions, after all, let alone even just general sci-fi handwaving.

Terra Novam wrote:Correction: 600 tons isn't all that difficult if you're using tungsten carbide. Such a shell would be about 9 meters long by 92 cm wide. Which is much smaller than I anticipated. So the mass would actually work out rather well. A Novan capital ship could carry thousands of those shells...

Think you might have made some calculation errors again?

Assuming a cylinder, the volume of that shell would be 23.93 m^3
Density of tungsten carbide is 15,630 kg/m^3
Hence, the mass of the shell would be 23.93*15,630 = 374,000 kg = 374 metric tons

Terra Novam wrote:Only that's a Tertiary-type round. The Secondary-type weight 7,000, and the Primary-type 30,000 metric tons. Meaning a Primary-type MAC shell would be almost 100 meters across...
Nope!
I'm going to alter that to 600, 200, and 80 metric tons. Could you please calculate for me their TNT equivalent strength when traveling at 0.7c?

Using the aforementioned kinetic energy calculator, you could do it yourself, really. It even converts most of the units automatically for you:
http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=relativistic+kinetic+energy+calculator

600 metric tons: 5,155,000 megatons TNT
200 metric tons: 1,718,000 megatons TNT
80 metric tons: 687,400 megatons TNT

Terra Dysonia wrote:OOC
Never said we could tank a bunch of shots. I said the tritanium-duranium alloy could take maybe 2 or 3 direct hits from a KEP-style before giving out. Dysonian ships are more squish, but their lighter construction makes them very fast for capital vessels and hard to pin down. Even managing a glancing blow with a KEP will do serious damage to a Dysonian vessel, and depending on the target area, could slow it down and make follow up shots easier.

Yep, the important thing to remember about "dumb" weapons (railguns, mass drivers, etc.) is that in space, they can be very, very easy to dodge.

Aragonn wrote:Anyway, a solid shot KEP composed of tungsten carbide with an adamantium core travelling at Mach 15 (5104.35 m/s) to Mach 17 (5784.93 m/s) is going to hit with a force so strong it'll put a perfectly circular hole wherever it makes impact.

Wait a second, Terra Novam's rounds travel at 0.7c, while yours travel at 0.00002c? The disparity here is so massive...

(IMO Terra Novam's weapons are unrealistically too quick, but yours are also probably underpowered. After all, things that seem fast on the ground are actually quite slow in space; the escape velocity of Earth alone is Mach 32...)

Edit: formatting

Rationalist Science wrote:Wait a second, Terra Novam's rounds travel at 0.7c, while yours travel at 0.00002c? The disparity here is so massive...

(IMO Terra Novam's weapons are unrealistically too quick, but yours are also probably underpowered. After all, things that seem fast on the ground are actually quite slow in space; the escape velocity of Earth alone is Mach 32...)

Edit: formatting

It's 0.07c in the Hyperion canon for balancing. And I'll still be using the 1600Kt figure for the same reason. I just wanted to get my numbers straight for the codex. (I really do suck at math... Pretty much all my calculations were off or just plain wrong.)
And true, Mach 17 in a space battle would be very slow, especially given "realistic" engagement range.

Terra Novam wrote:It's 0.07c in the Hyperion canon for balancing. And I'll still be using the 1600Kt figure for the same reason. I just wanted to get my numbers straight for the codex. (I really do suck at math... Pretty much all my calculations were off or just plain wrong.)

You could explain it with smaller shells and slower speed if you want.

Terra Novam wrote:And true, Mach 17 in a space battle would be very slow, especially given "realistic" engagement range.

Even 0.07c is three orders of magnitude faster than Mach 17...

Speaking of range, here's some excellent in-depth discussion of it by Isaac Arthur (highly recommend the entire video, and his entire channel for that matter):
https://youtu.be/xvs_f5MwT04?t=458
TL;DR you can dodge even laser weapons at the ranges we're talking about in space by preemptively moving your ship about randomly

Terra Novam

Rationalist Science wrote:You could explain it with smaller shells and slower speed if you want.
Even 0.07c is three orders of magnitude faster than Mach 17...

Speaking of range, here's some excellent in-depth discussion of it by Isaac Arthur (highly recommend the entire video, and his entire channel for that matter):
https://youtu.be/xvs_f5MwT04?t=458
TL;DR you can dodge even laser weapons at the ranges we're talking about in space by preemptively moving your ship about randomly

Same could be said about dodging punches. Just preemptively move your face out of the way. But anyway, I was taking the US Navy prototype muzzle velocity and improving it as realistically as I thought possible. The way I see it we have two solutions to this problem. First, we decrease effective weapon ranges to be in line with canon WH40K ranges (3,000 km to 25,000 km depending on the weapon). Second, we change my railgun muzzle velocity from being realistic to being relativistic (from Mach 17 to 0.05c) which makes them ridiculously powerful as kinetic weapons. I'd just like to point out that increasing weapons ranges to these absolutely enormous distances makes the conventional torpedo practically useless. Ramming tactics would also be pointless, as you'll be blown to smithereens before you get anywhere close to the enemy.

Edit: I mean these two solutions exclusive to each other, so one or the other but not both together. And in all honesty, I'd want the effective weapons ranges to be shortened because I think it makes things more interesting and dynamic. Making all weapons be sniping weapons turns everything into a game of who can snipe better. That's no fun.

Terra Novam

Aragonn wrote:Same could be said about dodging punches. Just preemptively move your face out of the way.

Not really. Looking at a realistic space battle with realistic ranges, you could be moving so far that your enemy simply wouldn't know where to aim, even with lightspeed weapons. And then you have sublight weapons, where your projectiles would be even more easily dodged and/or destroyed, considering that massive amounts of advance warning...

Aragonn wrote:But anyway, I was taking the US Navy prototype muzzle velocity and improving it as realistically as I thought possible. The way I see it we have two solutions to this problem. First, we decrease effective weapon ranges to be in line with canon WH40K ranges (3,000 km to 25,000 km depending on the weapon). Second, we change my railgun muzzle velocity from being realistic to being relativistic (from Mach 17 to 0.05c) which makes them ridiculously powerful as kinetic weapons. I'd just like to point out that increasing weapons ranges to these absolutely enormous distances makes the conventional torpedo practically useless. Ramming tactics would also be pointless, as you'll be blown to smithereens before you get anywhere close to the enemy.

Minor nitpick: 0.05c isn't exactly relativistic; until you reach around 0.1c, Newtonian approximations still mostly work

And when you get to those more realistic ranges, you'd want pretty much all your weapons to be guided whenever possible, because of how easily your enemy can move out of the way.

Aragonn wrote:Edit: I mean these two solutions exclusive to each other, so one or the other but not both together. And in all honesty, I'd want the effective weapons ranges to be shortened because I think it makes things more interesting and dynamic. Making all weapons be sniping weapons turns everything into a game of who can snipe better. That's no fun.

Indeed. If you want fun space battles of the conventional sci-fi type, you have to throw realism out the window. (Which, by the way, is why I think it doesn't make sense to try to apply realism to this case in the first place. Rational internal consistency, sure, but not realism. Unless you choose to go pure hard sci-fi.)

Terra Novam

Aragonn wrote:Same could be said about dodging punches. Just preemptively move your face out of the way.

By this I was comparing your starships dodging lasers to people dodging punches and jabs in fisticuff fights. Punches and jabs come at you so fast you can't react to them soon enough to dodge, so to dodge you have to try to predict when and where and preemptively move your face out of the way.

Rationalist Science wrote:Looking at a realistic space battle with realistic ranges, you could be moving so far that your enemy simply wouldn't know where to aim, even with lightspeed weapons. And then you have sublight weapons, where your projectiles would be even more easily dodged and/or destroyed, considering that massive amounts of advance warning...

Assuming your sensors break the lightspeed barrier. If they're bound to the 1c speed limit, you won't see that lightspeed weapon fire until it hits you in the face.

Rationalist Science wrote:Minor nitpick: 0.05c isn't exactly relativistic; until you reach around 0.1c, Newtonian approximations still mostly work.

My bad. I know you made that nitpick with ISF earlier on the RMB. I was just skimming through the RMB at the time though, so I wasn't paying much attention...

Rationalist Science wrote:And when you get to those more realistic ranges, you'd want pretty much all your weapons to be guided whenever possible, because of how easily your enemy can move out of the way.

To have both speed and guidance you'd need a missile or torpedo with ridiculously powerful motors. I'm talking hugely disproportionate. It's not even an option worth considering. Guidance is out the window at that range. Hel, missiles and torpedoes are completely out the window at that range. Kinetic weapons are also out the window because they're slow, easy to detect, and easily dodged. Plasma is no longer a thing because the energy dissipates before it gets anywhere near the enemy ship. Every weapon which continues to exist is a laser or some energy weapon. Things that move at lightspeed. And then ranges get to be so ridiculous that you yourself don't even have to be in sensor range to fire on someone. Link your sensor feeds with another ship's sensor feeds and fire on the enemy ship that your ally is detecting. It gets to be so much like Star Trek except instead of fleets being right up in each other's faces they're light-years apart sniping at each other with their lasers and phasers and particle cannons. We don't want that. At least I don't want that.

You know what? That's what I'm gonna do. Instead of this being a sniping battle over multiple AU, we're going to be engaging at 25,000 km at the most. Aesir naval railgun muzzle velocity is going from Mach 17 to 0.005c which ends up being 1498962.29 m/s or 1,498.962 km/s (rounded out). This should make them remain competitive at least in short ranges of 3,000 km to 6,000 km distances. It'd take about 5 seconds for the shells to make impact at 6,000 km, but most ships are too big and bulky to move completely out of the way in just five seconds. And I can only imagine how much force would be applied to the shields of the ship getting pummeled since I've grown terrible at math now. See kids, this is what happens to you when you graduate high school but don't go to college nor exercise your math skills. You start to look like the dumb one.

According to Google and my own calculator, if ISF keeps her muzzle velocity of 0.07c it translates to 20,985,472.06 m/s or 20,985.472 km/s. Definitely the sniping weapon of choice for these close engagements. Though I'd tone it down a notch because in the 5 seconds it takes me to hit something 6,000 km away Novan shells would've already travelled over 100,000 km.

Terra Novam

Forum View