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Zeouria wrote:Anyone have any good sujestions for books on Anarcho-Capitalism?

Anarchy, by Serge Sibirsky

https://www.dropbox.com/s/65grpu7013lvmae/Photo%20Jul%2023%2C%201%2044%2002%20PM.jpg

Zeouria wrote:Anyone have any good sujestions for books on Anarcho-Capitalism?

That one book by David Friedman. It tells about how law could be managed in an anarcho-capitalist society.

It was this
Law's Order: What Economics Has to Do with Law and Why It Matters (2000)

But I suppose this one is interesting, too
The Machinery of Freedom (1973, revised 1989 and 2014)

Sibirsky wrote:Anarchy, by Serge Sibirsky

https://www.dropbox.com/s/65grpu7013lvmae/Photo%20Jul%2023%2C%201%2044%2002%20PM.jpg

Wow, have you actually authored a book? I sense that photo is edited, though...

The liberated territories

Sibirsky wrote:Because wars of aggression are extremely expensive and rarely profitable. The US has spent trillions to barely (and not even) control a couple of small, technologically backwards areas. Why would a for profit enterprise even attempt it?

I don't know. Corporations can try conserving their profits and revenue sources through protectionist actions. And by that I mean big badda boom.

Big badda boom?

The liberated territories

I am not sure whether I should continue supporting Federalism or move to Confederalism. The latter may be better with the demarchic system. For America.

The liberated territories wrote:I am not sure whether I should continue supporting Federalism or move to Confederalism. The latter may be better with the demarchic system. For America.

Hint: become AnCap :P

Magna libero wrote:Wow, have you actually authored a book? I sense that photo is edited, though...

It's a joke.

Evil the great

Liberated territories, what Sib said, basically. You have no idea how dangerous it is for an army to fight a bunch of insurgents among a peaceful civilian population, so when the peaceful population is armed to the teeth as well... I don't want to imagine the carnage it'd cause to regular troops. To "win", they'd have to commit genocide and waste trillions of dollars ( if we're going to use the good old dollar as an example anyway ). They'd also have to be the servants of a totalitarian state. No private company could do such a thing, because it would mean operating at a loss ( and god what a loss ) and pissing off its clients very, very bad.

A non-clientelist State ( i.e a totalitarian dictatorship ) can afford to piss off its citizens ( to a certain extent anyway ), but those kind of regimes also tend to have terrible economies and irrelevant weaponry. So... They're not going to be much of a problem for an ancap society with a whole bunch of well-equipped defensive troops, plus its militant people.

If you're still not sure, let's quote a totalitarian militarist who definitely knew what he was talking about:

Admiral Yamamoto: "You cannot invade mainland United States. There would be a rifle behind each blade of grass." Advising Japan's military leaders of the futility of an invasion of the mainland United States because of the widespread availability of guns. It has been theorized that this was a major contributing factor in Japan's decision not to land on North America early in the war when they had vastly superior military strength.

Evil the great

The latter is supporting my claim that armed societies are invulnerable to a certain number of attacks. It does not imply that the US is an ancap society haha

I see a lot of posts dealing with how a libertarian society would function, bit very few on how it would be established in the first place. How do members of this region think their ideal libertarian society could be implemented, how would you deal with those who are against your desired system, and so on?

Evil the great

Move to an almost inhabited area, convince the population etc. We're peaceful people, obviously. But those who are against our desired system would attack us. We'd defend ourselves and repel them. We would have no expansionist velleities, but would show an example for the rest of the world.

I don't see it being achieved without revolution, honestly. The State would not respond to a peaceful tax revolt in a good way. Making self defense mandatory.

Happy birthday to The Mailman!

I bet he still delivers on the blacktop.

Mirule wrote:I see a lot of posts dealing with how a libertarian society would function, bit very few on how it would be established in the first place. How do members of this region think their ideal libertarian society could be implemented, how would you deal with those who are against your desired system, and so on?

Maybe we could just privatize the law system, police and government. In some societies it would be similar to a mutualist society, in other a more anarcho-capitalist society or something else. And from there it could move to further privatizations. I don't think there would be a big difference as the todays society could be very similar to a panarchist society -- or atleast a start to a panarchist society.

Hmm. I don't know. The whole problem would be to "suddenly just privatize/voluntarize (correct verb?) some major government operating things". I haven't really thought this out. :D

Mirule wrote:I see a lot of posts dealing with how a libertarian society would function, bit very few on how it would be established in the first place. How do members of this region think their ideal libertarian society could be implemented, how would you deal with those who are against your desired system, and so on?

Make a boat load of money. Buy an island. Secede from the nation it's in.

That last part is harder than the first.

Sibirsky wrote:Make a boat load of money. Buy an island. Secede from the nation it's in.

That last part is harder than the first.

What about creating a new island in the style of UAE? You know, putting tons of sand and other materials on a sea or ocean. I wonder how the international reactions would be to that. Would it be perfectly legal?

Why are my ads gone on NS?

"That was not the claim. The claim was that minarchists are not statists. That is false. Minarchists are statists."

As I recall, that was not the issue. The issue was whether or not minarchists such as Ayn Rand are libertarians.

Whatever the case, in the American usage of the term "libertarian", minarchists (especially advocates of the Night-watchman state) are considered libertarians.

Meridiani Planum wrote:"That was not the claim. The claim was that minarchists are not statists. That is false. Minarchists are statists."

As I recall, that was not the issue. The issue was whether or not minarchists such as Ayn Rand are libertarians.

Whatever the case, in the American usage of the term "libertarian", minarchists (especially advocates of the Night-watchman state) are considered libertarians.

But they are not as libertarian. ;)

Meridiani Planum wrote:"That was not the claim. The claim was that minarchists are not statists. That is false. Minarchists are statists."

As I recall, that was not the issue. The issue was whether or not minarchists such as Ayn Rand are libertarians.

Whatever the case, in the American usage of the term "libertarian", minarchists (especially advocates of the Night-watchman state) are considered libertarians.

Of course they are. The Ayn Rand claim was not mine and I was not addressing it.

Magna libero wrote:Maybe we could just privatize the law system, police and government. In some societies it would be similar to a mutualist society, in other a more anarcho-capitalist society or something else. And from there it could move to further privatizations. I don't think there would be a big difference as the todays society could be very similar to a panarchist society -- or atleast a start to a panarchist society.

Hmm. I don't know. The whole problem would be to "suddenly just privatize/voluntarize (correct verb?) some major government operating things". I haven't really thought this out. :D

Libertarian infiltration of the state, then?

Magna libero wrote:What about creating a new island in the style of UAE? You know, putting tons of sand and other materials on a sea or ocean. I wonder how the international reactions would be to that. Would it be perfectly legal?

Sounds like sea steading, to me

Sibirsky wrote:Make a boat load of money. Buy an island. Secede from the nation it's in.

That last part is harder than the first.

Interesting that you'd seek to buy an island out rather than trying to proselytise the ideology to those already living there. Any reason for the preference?

Evil the great wrote:Move to an almost inhabited area, convince the population etc. We're peaceful people, obviously. But those who are against our desired system would attack us. We'd defend ourselves and repel them. We would have no expansionist velleities, but would show an example for the rest of the world.

I don't see it being achieved without revolution, honestly. The State would not respond to a peaceful tax revolt in a good way. Making self defense mandatory.

So your idea is to basically bait the state into attacking you, then fighting back in self defence?

Not so dissimilar from some left-winger's thoughts on revolutionary strategy really

----------------------

How realistic do residents of this region see their various chosen methods being?

Another option is agorism, or counter-economics.

Mirule wrote:

How realistic do residents of this region see their various chosen methods being?

It depends on how much you are ready to face problems, such as expensiveness, convincing other people and revolutionary self-defense. :/

Mirule wrote:

Interesting that you'd seek to buy an island out rather than trying to proselytise the ideology to those already living there. Any reason for preference?

It would be my own Te' Island or whatever. Sib Island. Serge Island. Aly Island.

The name is irrelevant. The island is.

We'd be the only resident.

http://www.privateislandsonline.com/islands/buck-island

Sibirsky wrote:It would be my own Te' Island or whatever. Sib Island. Serge Island. Aly Island.

The name is irrelevant. The island is.

We'd be the only resident.

When I was asking about building a libertarian society I was asking about more than making a little micronation.

Do you think a real-life Sibirsky (okay, maybe not with 11+ billion citizens but at least a proper civilisation rather than a band society) is possible, and if so how would you seek to achieve it?

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