New Coalition of NationsBoard

Nedea wrote:

The History, & The Problem

Originally, years ago at this point, we had map 1.0. Map 1.0 sucked. it was just some generated landmasses and a rough paint job. We RP'd a little bit but it was serviceable at bare minimum. Then, after playing around in Paint.net for a while, I had discovered a new method for painting the map and its borders. It allowed for more complex arrangements and style choices. After pitching it to all of you here, we decided to go with map 2.0. 2.0 is the current map we are using. (maybe, it's more like 2.4, I had a little fun). This map has been generally pretty easy to maintain but it can be very tedious at times. It's customizable, and detailed and frankly it looks better than a lot of the other maps I see on NS. But like I said, tedious. The map has outgrown the software I use to update it, paint.net. The main reason we haven't had an update in a while is because it just sucks to do. Each nation has its own layers, color pallets, and other minutia. This on top of the fact that I still haven't completed the geographic features of the map because it is just stitched together pieces from a map generator. Scales are off in some places, edges get weird, and if you look close enough, it gets fuzzy.

So, yea, the current map is good enough, but good enough is not enough for me. It stresses me out just looking at it. It might look fine to some of you, but I can see every flaw and problem with it. Also, IT'S HUGE. I know that it can be slow to load on some people's computers. Now, that might be more of an issue with the host I am using, and I should probably host it on my own servers (Spoiler alert, this is going to happen). All this and there are still more problems.

Map requests are a nightmare. When we get new nations, they look at our map and immediately want space on it. I tell them the same thing each time. "Hey buddy, why don't you talk a bit in the RMB, let us get to know you and try RPing a little bit about your nation before I throw you on the map." Let me share a couple I get.

"hello can i get a uhhh..spot on da north of the sea of rivers thank you"

"hey can u give me a spot on the north of the sea of fourtune on 60.12 direction tnx im waiting"

"Hi there
Hello

I want a space on the map please
Can it be coastal and relatively mountainous please
I also want it to be quite small
I hope this is possible
Thanks!"

Now, I usually send them all the same stuff I posted above. And then they usually ghost us. They either dip, or CTE. So, I'm glad I didn't make any changes to the map. So, this issue is map requests do not have a defined system. When you go to the Delta Episode RP thread, we have 2 links that are kill about the rules and requests. I forgot we had a forum! But that forum is kill :( So, that needs fixing.

Let's break this all down...

The Issues

+ Map is tedious to update.
+ Map has relics that bother me.
+ Map has no concise request system.
+ Map has outgrown the software I use to update it.
+ Map is too big/takes too long to load.
+ Map went from being fun for me, to being a chore.

So, there we have it, a list of all the issues that make me hate even looking at the map. But I want the map to work for everyone and be fun and stimulating for me to work on. Let's talk about some of the requests I've seen.

The Requests

46566 mentioned he would like trade routes to be added to the map. This is pretty simple and could be implemented into the 2.0 map without much effort. Trade routes are generally natural structures that can, as Ath said, evolve and change over time. Like most systems, these routes would follow the "path of least resistance." Port to port. I would probably draw some dotted lines that connect various port cities together with what my best guess would be. I could add big red X's over some of these lanes to symbol shipping disruptions, ala pirate activity, blockades, etc. I could make the lines thicker or thinner depending on the traffic that lane carries. Lines could change in size as the density of trade changes via RP posts and events. All in all, I give this request a gold stamp. NEXT!

Athretvari mentions new geography. Now, I know this isn't a request but something I want to talk about anyway. Geography is one of the most important features of any map. People have preferences for where they want their nation. Sara wants cold, Nordic/Minnesotan climates, Ath loves his archipelagos, Moarfall wants jungles and a primal atmosphere, and so on. These needs must be met to ensure satisfaction with the map. Throughout the years of my map tending, it is clear, that users care more about where their nation is than what their nations shape is. Shape is important sure, but the local geography really gets them going. So, to answer the question, no, I will not overhaul the planetary geography/landmasses that much. We already did that when we upgraded from 1.0 to 2.0 and I kind of like what we have here. Though, I have noticed when it comes to oceans, we don't have particularly large ones. We have a TON of land. Like I said, my plan is not to overhaul the planet's geography, but it will change. A lot in some places and a little in others. For example, right now we don't have very many small islands, in reality, a planet like ours should have potentially hundreds or thousands of small islands and 3.0 will reflect this. Vari's rejoice! More details on the changes to geography later.

Weather maps are an interesting addition and go hand in hand with geography. The climate is intrinsically tied to the terrain it exits in. A weather layer should be simple to implement. The way I see it, it doesn't need to convey much more than what you see on a standard radar. Here is where the rain is, here is where the snow is, here are the local temps. The occasional monsoon, hurricane, tropical storm, etc. Fun little events that players can react to and RP about. Athretvari's suggestions on this topic are exactly what I am looking for. When the weather changes, (I'll have to decide on a frequency) the Phanon Weather Service releases a brief overview of the current weather, and a prediction of what the next cycles weather could be. Another gold star request.

NPCs are a beast of a topic. They can encompass so much. But before we go into what can do with them, what do we do with them now? NPCs are essentially little punching bags us real nations get to bully for whatever reason we want. It can be scary to try and approach a war scenario with another player, especially if it is not a joint RP, no one wants to lose after all. But NPCs make easy targets to invade, turn into puppets, send aid, and have proxy wars over. All Player Nations fall into about 3 categories, Minor, Major, and Superpowers. Unless a player specifically elects to play as a third world country or a city state, they should be considered to have as much agency as their peers. NPCs on the other hand do not fall into these categories. More like, NPCs can be Developing Nations, Decadent Nations, City States, or Pirate States. An example of each of these; The savages north of Ath, Developing Nation | Gresk, Decadent Nation | The tiny island between 46566 and ODR, Midodr, City State | The Thirsty Armada, Pirate State. This is a rough system to place all the NPCs into. Most of the time, when I placed an NPC on the map, I just sort of thoughtlessly put it there. Only considering the category it ought to be. The lore I left to its Player Nation neighbors. We could very easily have a directory of NPCs. Their attitudes, proclivities, and relative strength. I think it would be fun to have an NCON NPC contest every now and then. Players can make a dispatch about a made-up NPC and then we can vote on whose to add or whose needs a little more work. This is not really a request either but work that must be done, nonetheless.
 
The Vision

Okay, so what does all this mean. Well, my philosophy in life is as follows: "I will either find a way or make one." It's a nice quote and fits me well. In life, I am usually VERY unsatisfied with what options are made available to me. Most software, services, devices, etc. are built with the lowest common denominator in mind. Well, I am not common, and I am no bottom (get it?). To that end, I end up changing the systems I have to work with, and if I can't change it, I build a new one. A couple examples. Windows wouldn't let me control my system to the extent I felt comfortable with, so I switched to Linux. The distros I played with didn't work exactly as I needed them to, so I edited all the configurations. Paint.net started failing me, so I went to GIMP. RPG systems don't work the way I need them to, so I make new rules. Skyrim isn't good enough, so I install over 2000 mods. This is my life, not perfection, but mefection. I just coined that, mefection. Anyway, back to the point. If something isn't working for me, I don't feel motivated to use it. As stated above, this has become an issue with the map, and it's a disservice to all of you. So, with that in mind, let me tell you about my multi-year project so far.

Map 3.0 has had several iterations, ideas, features, and so on. I haven't nailed it down yet, but I am getting closer. I think I have enough now to tell you all what I am making. In making 3.0, I have a few design philosophies in mind.

+ The map must be enjoyable to update.
---Note, I did not say easier, I said enjoyable.
+ The map must be user friendly.
+ The map must be easy for users to make requests.
+ The map must load quickly.
+ The map must have a uniform look.
+ The map must be the best on NS.

But who cares about that, let's get into some of the nitty gritty features and mechanics.

A long-time staple of our maps that has made requests easier and pointing to locations faster has been the almighty hexagon. The hexagon is quite literally, the bestagon. Hexes will remain in 3.0 and will be even more relevant to the map than ever before. Currently, we have rather large hexagons, this makes detailing your borders and claims a bit tricky and can cause nations to be much larger than they probably should be. The 2.0 map has 2870 hexes. 3.0 was going to have over 5 million. Quite a jump huh? Thats an increase of 1,742 times! Too big. After mathing it out, I think I have settled around 250,000 - 500,000. Still quite a few but not beyond the pale. Why am I doing this? I am trying to make each hex have a more relevant size. I want each hex to be about the size of a mid-sized metropolitan area, about 2,000 sq kilometers. The area of the earth is about 510 million sq kilometers. So if each hex is about 2,000 and the Earth (our general reference for Delta's size) is about 510 million, then some simple math gives us about 250,000 hexes. I feel comfortable rounding numbers around, so we can say Delta is 500 million sq kilometers. Just a bit smaller than the Earth. Sue me. So, what does this do exactly and why am I making this change?

I am working on a large sprite sheet. For those of you that don't know, most 2D games and graphics are presented as sprites. From the first sentence on the Wikipedia entry on sprites: "In computer graphics, a sprite is a two-dimensional bitmap that is integrated into a larger scene, most often in a 2D video game." My sprite sheet is basically a tile map. I am making a hexagonal representation of various terrain, water, mountains, etc. My tile map will probably be completed at around 200 assets. This will make the map more detailed than ever. Probably almost too detailed, but we'll cross that bridge when we get there. From this point I will then begin the PAINSTAKING process of building the entire world of Delta, tile by tile. (In reality, I will probably automate this process) Once I have a general shape of the landmasses, I will go into the finer details, nice edges, mountain ranges, lakes, rivers, etc. Once this is done, for all map claims going forward, when you claim a hex, you get the whole hex, and not some arbitrary part of its neighbor hexes.

The artwork for this project should hopefully convey a more vibrant world. You get a chance to really see what terrain you are dealing with and should give me the fidelity I am looking for. Thankfully, I can scale the artwork as I need, so if I decide on fewer hexes, the assets will get larger but shouldn't have any problems with aliasing. I look forward to your thoughts and feelings on this, maybe you have a better suggestion for what the size of each hex should be. Alright, next topic.

I mentioned in a previous post, I want the map to be smart. Now, I have a lot of ideas for what that could mean, so lets go over some of my ideas. Ill put them into 3 categories. Likely, potentially, maybe. I know, real specific.

--LIKELY--
+ When you hover over a nation, I want the map to highlight its borders, and give you a tooltip about that nation.
+ I want buttons on the page that when you click them, allow you to change the layers. i.e. Weather, political, terrain, unions, etc.
+ Icons for current events that link to the related RP post.
--POTENTIALLY--
+ Animations. I think it would be really cool to have even basic animations on the map, maybe a tiny ship sailing along one of those trade routes, or a plane flying through the air. IDK. Not super important but would be nice.
+ Random events.
+ Transit paths
--MAYBE--
+ A login for nations to make their own updates and adjustments to their nation.
+ Economic activity.
+ Warzones.

I can't go into exact detail about each of these right now since this post is already humungous but I am happy to dive deeper and discuss it after this main post is out.

Progress

+ Planning (80% complete)
+ Tile Map (40% complete)
+ Math (30% complete)
+ Bladder (99% Full)
+ Programming Acumen (50%)
+ Web Design (95%)
+ Geography Update (5%)
+ Tile Placement (0%)
+ Enthusiasm (100%)

Conclusion

I have been studying and practicing for a while now both art and programming. I want a system that yes, will require a lot on the front end, but once it's in, it will be glorious. BUT I NEED YOUR HELP. I need suggestions, feedback, and if you can, technical help. Also, ride my ass if I slow down. And one more thing. After I return from a convention I am going to (March 29-31) I will release my assets and notes on the project. I have a repo where the project is kept, and you will get to see in real time my progress and process.

I look forward to the discussion we will have as a result of this post. I'm not going to proofread this whole thing so take it as it is.

Yours,
Nedea

P.S. The discussion we had here page=rmb/postid=46837107 hasn't left my mind either.

Athretvari wrote:

(Update 1: 4.2 on the Richter... not too shabby for the northeast.)

(Update 2: Make that 4.8. Epicenter somewhere in central New Jersey.)

(Update 3: Revised to 4.7. Epicenter in Lebanon, NJ.)

St Saratoga wrote:

…

So any thoughts, feelings, advise, vibes, or you want to tell me to shut up feel free to say so!

St Saratoga wrote:

A forth influence within this is a monarchy. This monarchy is seen as the founders of the nation with its historical ties from old NCON and new NCON. It’s incredibly popular with the people as it’s seen as the foundation of stability that Saratoga has historically struggled with. The Monarchy has significant influence with its oversight of the Church of Providence. The Monarch, much like any irl monarch, communicates with and has a mandate from god. The Monarchy has seen its role within the nation reduced within the government which is being eroded by a more atheist and liberal.