The Glorious Nations of IwakuBoard

Provisional democracy of atlantis wrote:

Да. Анархо-коммунист. Как и Кропоткин или Махно.

Я бы вас назвал товарищем но....вы оппортунист,уж простите,но сильное отечество с вашей теорией мы не построим

Ну и можно на английском то,я все равно на переводчика иду

Provisional democracy of atlantis wrote:

Fascists and nazis spout the same stuff they’ve said since Julius Evola. It’s all fear mongering. And generally nazis and nazi sympathizers debating communists doesn’t always go well for the latter. Žižek, though i disagree with him on literally everything, beat Peterson easily. Peterson who denies the holocaust mind you and for some reason dislikes Trans people because allowing us rights leads to Chaos and disorder somehow.

Also when Nazis debate it isn’t with the intent to actually disprove leftist points. It literally exists just to be a propaganda rally for them. Which is why people like me are much more content with simply shutting down their hate speech. Y’know simply stay home, stop spousing your hate, we’ll have no issues. When you start calling for violence and suppression of rights that’s when we act. Freedom of speech goes both ways. Say what you want, but be ready to back it up.I have a black friend so i can’t be racist. NOI also contains anti-semitic aspects so y’know makes sense that nazis and antismites would get along. Malcolm X also left NOI to become a Sunni Muslim. So... like... Malcolm X’s religious views changed.

I brought up NOI because you said the ANP was notorious for beating up minorities and what not. Rockwell explicitely said that they do not do that and constantly had to shoo people who offered them money to beat people. They were focused on winning power through legal means, that's why Rockwell ran for governor of Virginia and was planning to run for president in 1972. I repeat, I myself am not a nazi and do not support all of Rockwell's teachings, but I certainly won't attack anyone based just on what I've heard, but rather what I've seen and read with my own eyes.

Sveserbia wrote:

I brought up NOI because you said the ANP was notorious for beating up minorities and what not. Rockwell explicitely said that they do not do that and constantly had to shoo people who offered them money to beat people. They were focused on winning power through legal means, that's why Rockwell ran for governor of Virginia and was planning to run for president in 1972. I repeat, I myself am not a nazi and do not support all of Rockwell's teachings, but I certainly won't attack anyone based just on what I've heard, but rather what I've seen and read with my own eyes.

You wanna know what i’ve seen with my own eyes? I’ve seen people flying ANP colors beating up friend and family. I’ve seen these same people hurt many comrades, even ones I disagree with at times. I live near Charlottesville. I’m Virginian. I know my state’s history almost as good as, even better, than many teachers in the state. The ANP, now called “New order” still causes issues. And still has caused harm. Their “legal means” tread on the rights of the individual.

In response to your earlier comment, I remind you that there’s different types of fascism. Tho they all benefit one another in their regions. There Muslim fascism, ameri-european fascism and asian fascism. It comes it different shapes but it’s all the same thing. They’ All bad regardless.

Also dude Dave Duke was a member of ANP
Also I have to ask if you’re Serbian or not and point out your nation’s own use of such tactics in the genocide of individuals just as the nazis did.

Sveserbia wrote:

No he said (and I quote): "Can you imagine a book called 'A directory of great Christians' listing George Lincoln Rockwell as one of us? Or Adolf Hitler?" What he was saying was NOT paranoia, because the guy presented solid evidence, that is BOOKS published by the Jews themselves, not by some nazi/conspiracy theorist, where they openly boast about some of the most notorious communists being Jewish. And nobody even tries to hide that, in fact even Wikipedia says Trotsky was of Jewish origin, as well as Litvinov. And they're not the only ones, there was Yurovsky (chief executioner of the Romanovs), Kaganovich, Sverdlov and a whole buch of others. What, you think the ADL would deliberately lie about their own people being communists?

It implies that all jews were communists. Which is far from it. It also uses the basis of antisemitism native to christian ideas. Not all jews are communists. And definitely not at that time. Like many jews were as a fact bankers. Who had no desire to be related in anyway with communists. some Jewish intellectuals worldwide took a part in the communist and anarchist uprisings with the hope of ending the Pogroms under the tsarist regime. And yes some like Trotsky, and Lenin whose grandfather was in fact jewish (something lenin didn’t know about until much later in the revolution and only because His sister had told him while they were going through old family things). We actually don’t even know Lenin’s ethnicity. He never confirmed it either. But communism was not a jewish conspiracy. Several early communists were anti semitic, Marx and Bakunin even doubled up with homophobia.

Banditostania wrote:

However Lenin understood that Communism can be achieved only through Socialism. About Krondstadt-Civil damn war is going on,and another might start just in your very heart. About Makhno-he made an anarchy and well.....People for some reason still left him for the Soviets, the people supported revolution. Not anarchy

The bolsheviks actually deserted to join the black army... 40,000 actually... and yet the black army was so scary that the poor wittle bolsheviks had have communism my way cause only my way is the way to do it... even though Kronstadt did it and asked “Hey uh... can we uh... have free elections to the soviets... we uh... we don’t think the leaders properly represent the people, obviously only let leftist parties run and y’know only allow workers and Petty Bourgeoisie vote... also please or we’ll declare independence and call it a day, mkay?”
“By May 1919, the Bolshevik government had withdrawn most Red Army forces from Ukraine after White successes in the south. The remaining Red Army troops who had stayed in various parts of Ukraine were suspicious of their commanders, and angry at the withdrawals from Ukraine, which they considered a defection from the revolutionary cause. At the end of July, 1919, Red Army detachments numbering some 40,000 troops in Crimea mutinied and deposed their commanders; many set out to join Makhno's anarchist Black Army. The mutiny was organized by some of Makhno's anarchist comrades who had remained commanders in the ranks of the Red Army, including Kalashnikov, Dermendzhi, and Budanov; these men also planned the transfer of forces. Large numbers of Red Army soldiers advanced from Novi Bug to Pomoshchnaya in search of Makhno's Black Army, bringing with them, as captives, their former commanders: Kochergin, Dybets and others. ”

Provisional democracy of atlantis wrote:

You wanna know what i’ve seen with my own eyes? I’ve seen people flying ANP colors beating up friend and family. I’ve seen these same people hurt many comrades, even ones I disagree with at times. I live near Charlottesville. I’m Virginian. I know my state’s history almost as good as, even better, than many teachers in the state. The ANP, now called “New order” still causes issues. And still has caused harm. Their “legal means” tread on the rights of the individual.

In response to your earlier comment, I remind you that there’s different types of fascism. Tho they all benefit one another in their regions. There Muslim fascism, ameri-european fascism and asian fascism. It comes it different shapes but it’s all the same thing. They’ All bad regardless.

Also I have to ask if you’re Serbian or not and point out your nation’s own use of such tactics in the genocide of individuals just as the nazis did.
It implies that all jews were communists. Which is far from it. It also uses the basis of antisemitism native to christian ideas. Not all jews are communists. And definitely not at that time. Like many jews were as a fact bankers. Who had no desire to be related in anyway with communists. some Jewish intellectuals worldwide took a part in the communist and anarchist uprisings with the hope of ending the Pogroms under the tsarist regime. And yes some like Trotsky, and Lenin whose grandfather was in fact jewish (something lenin didn’t know about until much later in the revolution and only because His sister had told him while they were going through old family things). We actually don’t even know Lenin’s ethnicity. He never confirmed it either. But communism was not a jewish conspiracy. Several early communists were anti semitic, Marx and Bakunin even doubled up with homophobia.
The bolsheviks actually deserted to join the black army... 40,000 actually... and yet the black army was so scary that the poor wittle bolsheviks had have communism my way cause only my way is the way to do it... even though Kronstadt did it and asked “Hey uh... can we uh... have free elections to the soviets... we uh... we don’t think the leaders properly represent the people, obviously only let leftist parties run and y’know only allow workers and Petty Bourgeoisie vote... also please or we’ll declare independence and call it a day, mkay?”
“By May 1919, the Bolshevik government had withdrawn most Red Army forces from Ukraine after White successes in the south. The remaining Red Army troops who had stayed in various parts of Ukraine were suspicious of their commanders, and angry at the withdrawals from Ukraine, which they considered a defection from the revolutionary cause. At the end of July, 1919, Red Army detachments numbering some 40,000 troops in Crimea mutinied and deposed their commanders; many set out to join Makhno's anarchist Black Army. The mutiny was organized by some of Makhno's anarchist comrades who had remained commanders in the ranks of the Red Army, including Kalashnikov, Dermendzhi, and Budanov; these men also planned the transfer of forces. Large numbers of Red Army soldiers advanced from Novi Bug to Pomoshchnaya in search of Makhno's Black Army, bringing with them, as captives, their former commanders: Kochergin, Dybets and others. ”

If we could allow free elections with all that stufd,we would simply collapse and all that revolution would be for nothing. We already had Mensheviks,Esers,Church against us,tge last one by the way,just because of ideological reasons. And if we would be more liberal we would just let the opposition take more place and eventually ruin the whole system down. Lenin wrote that building of that society may be possible only after the end of the war,which was supposed to crush the old order.
About Ukrainian front. Rural areas may have been under control of the Black army,but cities suppirted Soviets,lets not forget that Polish-Soviet war started which put Makhno movement down. Crimea-here Vrangel was in charge. White general. And exactly red army drove them out.
If everyone was like Krondatadt in ww2,we would have lost Moscow in the very first months.

Sirrufia wrote:

Mahno made a fatal error: He trusted Bolshevik government and tried to ally himself with it against White Army. Red Army then used him, and then after, destroyed him when he outlived his usefulness. Which makes Red Army ultimate gopniks!

You know,no one supported Makhno,except us,we were supplying him with everything while we could do that,fighting on other fronts all over former Russian Empire. Makhno was crushed ultimately by Poland,and fled to Paris.

Provisional democracy of atlantis wrote:

The Treaty of the Polish-Soviet war merely allowed Troops to be moved from Poland to southern Ukraine. Makhno had halted Wrangel in the ukraine and took prisoners. Makhnovshchina was independent from the Soviet, and actually rejected the authority of the soviets, calling for the restoration of civil liberties which the Bolsheviks outlawed. Also he denounces the Cheka. The Free territory held no elections and had no parties. It never even submitted to bolshevik demands. Anarchists don’t have elections, we don’t have governments. And that scares autocrats like Lenin, stalin and trotsky! Makhno was arrested by the red army after assisting them against wrangel.
“Lenin's orders were to arrest all members of Makhno's organization and to try them as common criminals. On November 26, 1920, less than two weeks after assisting Red Army forces to defeat Wrangel, Makhno's headquarters staff and many of his subordinate commanders were arrested at a Red Army planning conference to which they had been invited by Moscow, and executed. Makhno escaped, but was soon forced into retreat as the full weight of the Red Army and the Cheka's Special Punitive Brigades was brought to bear against not only the Makhnovists, but all anarchists, even their admirers and sympathizers”

Also don’t try to take credit for the Tachanka cause your jelly The Black army had the best calvary in the war

Provisional democracy of atlantis wrote:

Also don’t try to take credit for the Tachanka cause your jelly The Black army had the best calvary in the war

About autocrats. Hella damn,my ancestors all were peasants. Stalin came
And 1st grandfather became pilot
2nd grandfather became Engineer on Kirov tank factory.
1st Grandmother-Regional minister
2nd grandmother-architector

And all under pure evil Bolsheviks which outlawed everything.

Banditostania wrote:

About autocrats. Hella damn,my ancestors all were peasants. Stalin came
And 1st grandfather became pilot
2nd grandfather became Engineer on Kirov tank factory.
1st Grandmother-Regional minister
2nd grandmother-architector

And all under pure evil Bolsheviks which outlawed everything.

Stalin committed a genocide against the Ukrainian people and also was anti-semitic, I have friends whose families suffered under the bolsheviks because of their religious beliefs and also their sexualities.

Provisional democracy of atlantis wrote:

You wanna know what i’ve seen with my own eyes? I’ve seen people flying ANP colors beating up friend and family. I’ve seen these same people hurt many comrades, even ones I disagree with at times. I live near Charlottesville. I’m Virginian. I know my state’s history almost as good as, even better, than many teachers in the state. The ANP, now called “New order” still causes issues. And still has caused harm. Their “legal means” tread on the rights of the individual.

In response to your earlier comment, I remind you that there’s different types of fascism. Tho they all benefit one another in their regions. There Muslim fascism, ameri-european fascism and asian fascism. It comes it different shapes but it’s all the same thing. They’ All bad regardless.

Also dude Dave Duke was a member of ANP
Also I have to ask if you’re Serbian or not and point out your nation’s own use of such tactics in the genocide of individuals just as the nazis did.
It implies that all jews were communists. Which is far from it. It also uses the basis of antisemitism native to christian ideas. Not all jews are communists. And definitely not at that time. Like many jews were as a fact bankers. Who had no desire to be related in anyway with communists. some Jewish intellectuals worldwide took a part in the communist and anarchist uprisings with the hope of ending the Pogroms under the tsarist regime. And yes some like Trotsky, and Lenin whose grandfather was in fact jewish (something lenin didn’t know about until much later in the revolution and only because His sister had told him while they were going through old family things). We actually don’t even know Lenin’s ethnicity. He never confirmed it either. But communism was not a jewish conspiracy. Several early communists were anti semitic, Marx and Bakunin even doubled up with homophobia.
The bolsheviks actually deserted to join the black army... 40,000 actually... and yet the black army was so scary that the poor wittle bolsheviks had have communism my way cause only my way is the way to do it... even though Kronstadt did it and asked “Hey uh... can we uh... have free elections to the soviets... we uh... we don’t think the leaders properly represent the people, obviously only let leftist parties run and y’know only allow workers and Petty Bourgeoisie vote... also please or we’ll declare independence and call it a day, mkay?”
“By May 1919, the Bolshevik government had withdrawn most Red Army forces from Ukraine after White successes in the south. The remaining Red Army troops who had stayed in various parts of Ukraine were suspicious of their commanders, and angry at the withdrawals from Ukraine, which they considered a defection from the revolutionary cause. At the end of July, 1919, Red Army detachments numbering some 40,000 troops in Crimea mutinied and deposed their commanders; many set out to join Makhno's anarchist Black Army. The mutiny was organized by some of Makhno's anarchist comrades who had remained commanders in the ranks of the Red Army, including Kalashnikov, Dermendzhi, and Budanov; these men also planned the transfer of forces. Large numbers of Red Army soldiers advanced from Novi Bug to Pomoshchnaya in search of Makhno's Black Army, bringing with them, as captives, their former commanders: Kochergin, Dybets and others. ”

Oh, you're talking about the NSM? Those are just a bunch of larping skinheads, they have nothing to do with the ANP. I'm talking about Rockwell here, not some modern day neo-nazi larpers.

Provisional democracy of atlantis wrote:

AAAAAA THERE IT IS! The famous stalinist Kulaks they like to insert into anything that was clearly morally and pragmatically unjustifiably in anyway! Like with holodomor.

Also the Cheka attempted to Assassinate makhno after his troops came down with Typhus and Trotsky attacked. And no, all historians agree the black army had the best calvary thanks to the tachankas. The black army also prevented Wrangel from getting the important grain supplies in the ukraine.

Ukraine was primarily agricultural and lacked any real heavy industry. It’s why the black army fell. Didn’t have the industrial capability of the reds

Or it might have gone well like it did in Catalonia before stalin screwed it up.

Listen listen... we can argue all day and night... about the old days and maybe we can kill eachother later, i honestly don’t care... but let’s understand we do agree on some things, and it’s within our best interest to work together for those mutual interests and we can still disagree and respect our nuanced differences and not compromise them... some of those mutual interests I would hope includes equal rights for all working people, access to proper resources to LGBT, liberation from racism, end to capitalism, eventually (when we may disagree) the creation of a classless stateless society as per marx’s idea, and y’know we may disagree about the need for Vanguard and democratic centralism... and as much as I hate stalinists, and would sooner work with leninists and trotskyists, We all have a common enemy in the nazis, so what do you say comrade *holds our hand to shake*

I know kulaks. They held a lot of grain. During famine in 1911 In Povolzhye,they sold the grain for triple price of its original cost.
After Bolsheviks took power,they offered them to sell the grain on their prices,however they refused. Famine started,now because of drought.
I actually have a lot of material,video,text abd audio about Holodomor,but...all Russian.

So,as famine began they refused to sell grain even on increaaed prices. We had to do something with it.

In 1917 world got 4 major industrial sectors. One of them was Donbasso-Kuzneckii in Ukraine. Which was under Makhno back then.

Alright. We are supposed to stay united against imperialism. Let us forget what way we choose. Instead focuaing on end goal
*shakes hand*

Banditostania wrote:

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/551951826002509843/580862924168364063/8OhPCNJVMWg.jpg

Grain was sent but never arrived to the people and definitely not the Kulaks. The only historians who believe that are russian nationalists. Every major nation in the world acknowledges it as a genocide, even. Yes we know of those shipments. They never made ir tho.

“He analyses the actions of the Soviet authorities, two of commission and one of omission: (i) exporting 1.8 million tonnes of grain during the mass starvation (enough to feed more than five million people for one year), (ii) preventing migration from famine afflicted areas (which may have cost an estimated 150,000 lives) and (iii) making no effort to secure grain assistance from abroad (which caused an estimated 1.5 million excess deaths), as well as the attitude of the Stalinist regime in 1932–33 that many of those starving to death were "counter-revolutionaries", "idlers" or "thieves" who fully deserved their fate. Based on this analysis Ellman concludes, however, that the actions of Stalin's authorities against Ukrainians do not meet the standards of specific intent required to prove genocide as defined by the UN convention (with the notable exception of the case of Kuban Ukrainians).”

What’s the source of that information as well if you don’t mine my asking?

Sveserbia wrote:

Oh, you're talking about the NSM? Those are just a bunch of larping skinheads, they have nothing to do with the ANP. I'm talking about Rockwell here, not some modern day neo-nazi larpers.

Again Duke was from the ANP. Major leader of the KKK. Also The ANP had members carey guns and parade around rockewell’s home wirh a nazi flag flying. They also worked with the KKK and called integration a “jewish plot”

Ah damn it, I fvcking tried not to sink into an argument like this, and here I am defending the goddamn ANP although I said I don't fully support them. It's kinda hard not getting caught up and straying away from the subject on the internet tbh.