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I just live in Florida
Typica, Sylh Alanor, and Kariforunia
Cats?
Typica, Sylh Alanor, Melenavenia, Free Las Pinas II, and 2 othersKariforunia, and Uitmuntendheid
There is money in the economy that is untapped - government spending can in many times free up that money, and so some would say that increasing government spending increases economic activity at a higher proportion - every dollar of government spending translates to more than a dollar of economic activity.
Just be sure to spend more than you raise in taxes! You wouldn’t want to fuel this multiplier with money that would already have been put back into the economy in a multiplier way too! But also don’t forget deficit spending can be bad too!
Ah, the nonsensical nature of capitalist economies.
Typica, Refuge Isle, Sylh Alanor, Melenavenia, and 3 othersAraine, Free Las Pinas II, and Kariforunia
Well, technically, government spending does increase GDP as money is being spent in the nation, but this forces an increase in taxes, and the same money can be spent by consumers by letting them buy more things, so increasing government spending is just taking money away from your citizens to spend it how you like...?
I dunno, imma just continue to be a capitalist-environmentalist and sit in my corner here
Melenavenia and Kariforunia
Well government spending does go back into the economy - unless it’s something like direct foreign aid or something. It can be spent on things like infrastructure, which not only put money into peoples pockets (paying the workers), but it also can provide the basis for improving the economy (infrastructure supports the transport of goods, healthcare keeps workers healthy, and education ensures a skilled workforce).
Typica, Refuge Isle, Sylh Alanor, Melenavenia, and 2 othersFree Las Pinas II, and Kariforunia
True, but other than education, do those things really need to be paid for by the government?
Melenavenia and Kariforunia
Healthcare needs to be accessible to all, the best way of ensuring this is through free healthcare. I mean there should really be only so many places to profit off of other people’s literal pain and suffering. Infrastructure and (affordable) public transport also make sense because it makes it easier for people to get around and interact with the economy - if it was totally privatized, it could be a deterrent to use. Not to mention it doesn’t really seem right to charge people for walking down the road for profit. Do you really want to have to pay every single time you want to walk down the sidewalk?
Overall, in my opinion, public amenities help to give people a common experience and a concern for others - just speaking from my own experience, when I’m at my public library, I find myself much more caring and courteous than when I’m at a book store - not that I’m uncourteous, but I feel more separated.
Typica, Refuge Isle, Sylh Alanor, Melenavenia, and 2 othersFree Las Pinas II, and Kariforunia
Your healthcare comment does make sense: I wouldn't want to have to pay huge amounts of money to get my healthcare. However, free healthcare still has to be paid for, and the only way to do this is by taxing people, and I also don't want to pay half my income to the government. In my opinion, the best way to guarantee everyone's health is by issuing vouchers, where the government pays companies some money in exchange for vouchers that can be distributed to the public in accordance with how much they need it, for example the poor get most of the vouchers while those that can pay for the healthcare on their own don't receive any vouchers. This way, the population is taxed less and healthcare is still more affordable, and companies still compete, which breeds innovation.
As for infrastructure, the government makes you pay for using roads too-there are toll booths that tax you as you go down the road, or road tax that you have to pay when you own a car. So since the government does this using more taxpayer money, why not get the private companies to do the same thing, except it isn't held up by money you already paid for something else?
As for the public libraries/book stores thing, I think the government should buy books from publishers and set up their public libraries for people too, but it's no reason to ban book stores and outright buy all the books from the publishers and sell them back to the people as the publishers should still be allowed to have the freedom to spend their money how they like, right?
This is why a lot of people don't refer to government-sponsored healthcare systems as 'free', because you're right. But having the government in charge of the healthcare system drives prices down for everyone, because private businesses are, by nature, more interested in profit than doing good for their society. People will still become doctors, and people will still work to innovate on medications and techniques, because when needs are met, the good in people can more easily shine through. Also the 'pay half your income to the government' thing is, as far as I've seen, American propaganda. In Canada, at least (and to be fair, we don't have government-sponsored dental, vision, or mental health coverage), we pay less of our income to taxes for healthcare than Americans do for healthcare subsidisation.
Competition is hardly the only way to breed innovation, and it's generally not a method that works super well. Also the voucher system isn't good. If someone who is poor has a really bad year and goes through all of their vouchers, what do you suggest then? Do they just have to pay full price? What about the person who spends a year never needing to go to the hospital except for a checkup? Seems like if everyone just paid in the same amount, it would invariably balance out better for everyone collectively.
I'm going to keep it entirely honest with you here, I trust a government that is held accountable to the people through elections significantly more than I do a company that can do with these services whatever they like. I don't know why you'd ever trust an entity with a public service and not get any say in it.
Where did this come from? Lol, bookstores and libraries can coexist, they do in real life. And they can coexist in fully socialist states as well.
High reiserland, Araine, Free Las Pinas II, Laisou, and 2 othersGolden gateway, and Kariforunia
About the libraries, I was saying that having public places that all people can go to regardless of social class contributes to people caring more for each other, and having more concern for each other.
Sylh Alanor, Melenavenia, Free Las Pinas II, and Kariforunia
As for the last part, I don't know what Castagovia was on about, so I just said that I didn't want libraries to not exist. And as for the part where you said that people don't need to pay half their income to the government, that is true in many places, and in the US, it is unfortunate that the healthcare system is managed so poorly such that the government has to tax their citizens so much for their healthcare (Most American healthcare is actually state-owned, contrary to what many believe) and so, of course, such a system should not be used.
As for the "competition is not the only way to breed innovation" part, it isn't, but in my opinion, companies have much more incentive to innovate as if they don't, all the work that they put into the company will disappear as others start to do better than them.
About the vouchers, they can have, say, an expiry date on them, and if someone doesn't use their assigned vouchers in the year, they will have to give them back to the government, and the government can give the unused vouchers to someone who needs the help more in the next year. This way, the money that the government gives out is only spent on what the government gives it to you for, and any unused ones can go to helping those that have worse luck. And if, somehow, the entire nation needs to go to the hospital and there aren't any vouchers left, the government can intervene if necessary and provide aid by paying more to the hospitals.
Finally, about the infrastructure companies: I understand why you would trust your elected government more than a company, but the government can also build some roads where needed and/or even cooperate with the corporations that build the roads to help administer them and pay the corporations for the roads that they built. This also helps to reduce the size of the government and the strain that is put on administration of the country.
Not sure one gains very much by having the same ratio of income being devoted to mandatory expenditures under the illusion of choice. If 90% of my income goes to rent, electric, healthcare, and other mandatory expenses, is any of that really my free choice? That was pretty much my IRL this time ten years ago, and given that my effective tax was around 6%, was living in piss poor conditions, and working full time, going to say that taxes weren't what was wrong with that dynamic.
So basically free healthcare but the difference is that, in your scenario, the government is sponsoring a profit margin to a third party that doesn't actually contribute a product. Insurance companies do not create innovation, they absorb money without providing a service. If we're talking real healthcare companies, they pretty much know what they're doing. You're not going to find a novel new way of making insulin for 5% less in patient savings when the status quo in a free market system is passing on 800% of costs to the consumer.
Competitive free market ideas work poorly in theory, but in situations where people's lives depend on the goods being purchased, they are entirely without function in practice. You cannot boycott purchasing medical care that you depend on to live. If every healthcare provider in your nation is prohibitively expensive, your options are to pay that which is prohibitively expensive anyway or die. Some choice.
High reiserland, Sylh Alanor, Melenavenia, Free Las Pinas II, and 3 othersLaisou, Golden gateway, and Kariforunia
Little more than half=most
Typica, Laisou, and Kariforunia
I see your point, and instead of answering your statements, I'd just like to give you a scenario:
A friend of mine who is a syndicalist simulated his ideal government in a simulator once. He made the entire economy state-owned, and gave huge unemployment benefits, UBI, retirement funds and other things to the people. In the end, although he implemented these welfare funds, the price of all goods were forced up and wages forced down. Of course, there was a 0% tax rate as everyone was already being paid by the government, but in order to maintain a budget surplus, wages were lower than the usual market wage and prices were higher. Not only that, funding for many other things, such as science, were massively decreased. This shows that should the state own everything, the situation would not change much as there just isn't enough money to go around in any state. Therefore, a free market with some government regulation is the best way to ensure a stable and fair economy, at least in my opinion.
No idea why you thought it would be a relevant strategy to reply to my actual life experience with how a game went in a government simulator, whose programming was undoubtedly paid for and carried out by a company with a vested interest in having economic viability characterised in a certain way.
I'll be happy to discuss real world issues with you whenever you please.
Lower French Gregballs, Typica, Sylh Alanor, Free Las Pinas II, and 3 othersJunitaki-cho, Laisou, and Golden gateway
A question for everyone:
Do the citizens of your nation identify more with their national, sub-national or regional (Refugi) identity?
Does it differ between different places within your nation?
New Camelot of Avalonia, Lower French Gregballs, Typica, Sylh Alanor, and 4 othersMelenavenia, Michelland, Golden gateway, and Not louise of louiseland
"In character", Sylh Alanor is a nation of immortal elves, but the source of their immortality was shut off for a century, so only one currently-living elf has memories from before 1900. The rest lived under an invasion force until 2017, so for a few years after they were fiercely attached to identifying as the El'vhen and speaking only Ha'raj'vi'dirth. But given the importance of Refugia in negotiating their liberation, the elves have continuously and gratefully put themselves into the service of the region as a whole, and as of earlier this year, officially consider themselves to be Refugi first.
Lower French Gregballs, Melenavenia, Vikoland, Laisou, and 1 otherGolden gateway
My nation consists of cats, they identify with their cat identity, I guess.
Lower French Gregballs, Sylh Alanor, Melenavenia, Vikoland, and 1 otherLaisou
The Outer Planets Alliance has been spacefaring for thousands of years, and the nation you see here in Refugia is only an ambassador group and station orbiting the planet Refugia is located in. The people of the OPA identify with their country.
Lower French Gregballs, Melenavenia, Vikoland, and Laisou
The Avalonian identity is probably the most impactful, but it’s a grey area, since the Avalonian identity is universal. Avalonia and it’s religion/spirituality of Cisja Rona are inclusive and universal identities. Whether you follow Cisja Rona or not is not very important in Cisja Rona. It is the religion of the clouds, where divine power is held by the clouds and water, as well as all of nature. In Cisja Rona, all humans must live their lives with the most love for all else. The Avalonian identity is similar, in that it does not just consist of those holding an Avalonian passport, but instead is inclusive and synonymous of, and reflected in all concern for others welfare. Avalonians see themselves as a greater community, universally under Cisja Rona, and all with dignity and worth. This also has to do with the birth of the nation - its unity was brought about through different cultures and communities joining together under Cisja Rona based on its governing ideals. The Avalonian identity is based on ideals, which can be held by anyone regardless of the nationality. Refugees seeking a safe haven for their children are Avalonian before they even reach our shores.
Inherent in being Avalonian is recognizing your place as a larger community of equals.
Notice:
All hail 
Sylh Alanor, supreme empress of...wait no, that's not right. Uhh, ah yes democratically anointed champion of World Assembly Affairs, coming to an RO slot near you, this Saturday - Saturday - Saturday, July 4th. No one else found the inner courage to challenge her unstoppable ascent to the top, but splinter governments may continue to train in under ground bunkers waiting for the next opportunity to strike.
This concludes the mid-year election cycle. Thank
Medecion, Lower French Gregballs, Typica, Melenavenia, and 3 othersVikoland, Junitaki-cho, and Not louise of louiseland
Thank yoooooou,
I'll go ahead and get started then, though I won't write an IFV for this because I avoided starting a conversation about it in case someone else wanted to run against me.
So currently up at vote as of an hour ago is Protection Of Apostates. The aim of this proposal is to protect people who might be wishing to leave their religion from reprisal or punishment for that action. The proposal is, in my opinion, impressively considered, especially clause 4, beginning with 'Clarifies'. The stated clause ensures that religious institutions will still have the right to bar apostates from their premises and from employment in official religious functions, except in cases where their premises are being used for something secular, such as for elections or as emergency shelters.
I've given it a read-through, and voted in favour. I'm always up for more opinions though, so let me know what you think of it! Is there something I missed or something you consider to be a problem? Religious matters aren't something I'm extremely cognizant of or something I've done a lot of research into, so we should work together to have the best possible Refugi understanding.
Lower French Gregballs, Typica, Melenavenia, Vikoland, and 2 othersJunitaki-cho, and Not louise of louiseland
I'm voting in favor as well, though I find clause 7 and everything past it either null or redundant; and therefore annoying to read.
Sylh Alanor, Melenavenia, and Not louise of louiseland
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