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I thank you both for the opportunity to serve the great region of Abydos. It would be of great honor.
Thank you, I look forward to the great success ahead of us!
Ancient Greek Kingdoms and Synum gabymus
Post by Svr2200 suppressed by a moderator.
Zartavaria it has been over 24 hours since the vote on the Collective Bill of Rights was started. The final vote was 4 in favour with 2 scribes not casting a vote.
Therefore as it has passed in the conclave I now ask you to give your verdict on the bill. Will you pass it or not? We all eargely await your response on this critical bill for the future of Abydos.
Respectfully, it is my belief that this review is very much a case of following the letter, rather than the spirit of the law. The purpose of WA membership in attaining citizenship is to prove that the applicant is a genuine player, not a puppet. It is plainly obvious to anyone that Svr2200 is not a puppet. They have been a resident of Abydos for longer than the Grand Luxarch himself, and have continuously shown dedication and loyalty towards Abydos. Indeed, they were even Ma'at Emperor for some time. Once, Founder and Oracle Zyris said "Citizenship should be earned and not given out like free candy in a street parade." SVR2200 has clearly earned citizenship through showing greater participation and loyalty than many who are on the registry.
I do not believe there is legal basis for striking out SVR2200's name from the registry.
Citizenship Standarization Act 2.
WE SHALL never remove a nation from the Abydos Registry of Citizens (ARC). All citizens shall be considered eternal to Abydos and a record of their activity here shall be permanently recorded. Nations who move out of Abydos, denounce the Eye of Abydos or the Abydos Axioms or are otherwise ejected or banned shall remain on the Registry of Citizens with their name struck through. Citizens who no longer exist, or have died shall also remain on the list indefinitely.
SVR2200 has not met any of these, they are still in Abydos and by no means a traitor.
Furthermore, I believe that the Citizenship Standardization Act as it stands contains an ambiguity that should be addressed:
Citizenship Standardization Act 3.
WE SHALL NOT grant citizenship to nations who do not agree to abide by the laws of Abydos, are not in the World Assembly at time of registration, or hold offices in regions in which the Grand Luxarch considers hostile to the interests of Abydos. [...]
Does this mean this:
3. WE SHALL NOT grant citizenship to nations who do not agree to abide by the laws of Abydos, OR are not in the World Assembly at time of registration, or hold offices in regions in which the Grand Luxarch considers hostile to the interests of Abydos.
or this:
3. WE SHALL NOT grant citizenship to nations who do not agree to abide by the laws of Abydos, AND are not in the World Assembly at time of registration, or hold offices in regions in which the Grand Luxarch considers hostile to the interests of Abydos.
To me, the wording reads as the first option. "x,y or z" implies an 'or' between the first two items. Under this option, SVR's acceptance as a citizen is legal. I do not believe this to be the intention of the law, so I call on the Conclave to better define this part of the CSA.
As of now, I am not signing this Law Review. 
Ancient Greek Kingdoms has offered to work on a legislative answer, so I encourage him and the Conclave to do so.
Gyuamno, Svr2200, Ancient Greek Kingdoms, and Vulron
Deferentially, I most certainly agree that the review in question follows the letter of the law, which in my opinion provides a firm basis for fair play across the region and prevents rule by fiat. Perhaps the next SVR2200 will be a political opponent of the GL and will not enjoy such favors of spirit. In fact, it's the cases like SVR2200, in other words the sympathetic cases, that are the most important test of the Abydi Corpus Juris. Failure to strike his name from the registry pending legislative revision sets a worrisome precedent, if you ask me. But they don't pay you the High Oracle salary for nothing, so I accept that SVR2200's name will not be struck from the ARC pending legalisation. I think you should amend the Law Review to indicate this and that it should be published as an important matter of jurisprudence. Oracle #4
Speaking as a Citizen: As far as the current law reads, plain English grammar implies it should read as AND, not OR. As evidence of this, and of the Conclave's intent in ratifying the Citizenship Standardization Act (CSA), the Citizens Guild specifically states:
Rules for Citizenship:
All nations must be a member of the World Assembly to apply for citizenship in Abydos.
That underline appears in the directions for application, which seems quite definitive to me. If the changes to the CSA you propose are made, the requirement to be a member of the WA at the time of application will no longer stand. That would be a fairly radical change to both the Letter and the Spirit of the Law.
It seems to me our nascent region has come down with its first genuine case of Pink Eye (i.e. a constitutional crisis)!
Gyuamno, Yaqobia, Svr2200, and Vulron
Post self-deleted by Requiemis.
What do you mean? Do you mean a Conclave seat or citizenship?
U know what... I’ll let it slide. But if something like this happens again, expect some competition in the next election.
Ancient Greek Kingdoms and Armagstan
Consider it signed. I'll publish a bulletin making it official.
After recent discussions as I have applied for citizenship we are going to the next big step. We want a seat in the conclave.
Ashtonia out!!!!
Elections are in two months.
I don't see any ambiguity. It lists the qualifiers and disqualifiers in succession.
Svr2200, just join the World Assembly. You don't have to remain in it after having citizenship granted. And Ancient Greek Kingdoms, you know the law. If they are not a member of the World Assembly at the time of registration, they are not granted citizenship. And to the Conclave at large, and all others, I implore you to retain the law as writ. It is not ambiguous..I will veto any attempt to revise or replace it.
On this I agree, and while personally, I would like to see Svr2200 a citizen, I have to accept that the letter of the law is on your side in this matter, and defer to your ruling on the acceptance of SVR2200's citizenship being illegal.
(I encourage, like Zyris, Svr2200 to briefly join the WA and apply. Join for a few hours till you're confirmed, then immediately resign from the WA - little to no effect on your nation will occur. Or AGK and the Conclave can push for legislation with an exception if they like. As it stands, I have no further argument against Tristes Tropiques's ruling that the citizenship acceptance was illegal.)
To me, striking his name from the registry sets a worrisome precedent. Either SV2200 is never added to the registry, or he stays there - there is no legal precedent in my opinion to striking his name. The CSA states
Nations who move out of Abydos, denounce the Eye of Abydos or the Abydos Axioms or are otherwise ejected or banned shall remain on the Registry of Citizens with their name struck through.
SVR2200 has not moved out, has neither denounced the Eye nor the Axioms, and has been neither ejected nor banned. By striking his name for something that is not on this list, we are adding another reason to strike names from the Citizenship Registry - essentially, in my view, we are legislating, or amending a piece legislation by ourselves. This, to me, sets the worrisome precedent that the Oracles' Guild does not only interpret laws, but can implicitly amend them.
To me it's ambiguous. I'm a native speaker of English - maybe it's a dialectal difference. If no one else thinks it is ambiguous, so be it.
This is exactly the kind of political and legal drama that makes this a fun game to play, and this region a wonderful place to reside. I thank you all for thoughtful contributions to the citizenship debate at hand. Perhaps when our system has a more developed trial system, there will be formal mechanisms for trying the case, but as it stands I think this public discussion on the RMB has been outstanding and legally strong.
Long live the glorious Eye of Abydos!
Gyuamno and Svr2200
You sat for eight months as President and were mostly inactive. You ran for Scribe, which I endorsed you for and won the election to. You then resign and if I remember correctly, attempt to horn in on Yaqobia in his job as Chief Cartographer. Then with no position, you come to me for an appointment to Chief Ambassador. This is not a game of musical chairs. You don't get to quit, and expect someone else's job or to be given a job. No one is entitled to anything. As to your threat to run against me, go right ahead if you so choose. But why would you run? Because you were passed over for a position you were never promised after you quit the one you were elected to? How does that look? Be upset if you like. It will have no affect on me.
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