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OOC: I never said that. Britain made a mistake. I said I might go neutral.
OOC: Neutral would also be dandy. Like I said, kick off an IC peace negotiation somehow and we can see where it goes.
You can tell me why it is you're supporting a nation, bot IC and OOC, that doesn't know how to, and won't, play fair. Or admit you are intent on riding that to ensuring that I am destroyed completely, to which I will respond with leaving if I must.
You forget, I've tried that repeatedly. I tried to bomb her cities; she complained my subs couldn't get close enough, and that missile defenses destroyed every missile. I tried using multi-million man armies, and she complained it wasn't feasible to use. I tried to invade her puppets, but she told me it was impossible thanks to all the defenses she set up (and killed all my men, to boot). So no, I've been doing what you just said, but every time, she comes up with some excuse on why she can't be touched anywhere. It's downright frustrating, and I'm absolutely fed up with it.
OOC: Its not about theory. Either you have the inputs and throughputs to make and maintain something, or you don't. Naniyyolia doesn't have enough labour inputs, if it also wants a welfare state.
OOC: Target the defenses to soften them up. Or the civilians of her allies. As for multi-million armies, just counter her arguments that she's doing the same thing. Also, Cyrod is a good base. Collective defense. And rather close to all of her allies. As for her vassals, civilians/defenses. Don't set a single soldier on the ground until her defenses are softened up. Not to mention, all WMDs bar nukes are technically legal...
OOC: A welfare state does not mean that its citizens do not work.
OOC: Wait, it's up to me to decide whether you leave or not?
I choose for you to stay, if that is even my decision to make.
I also choose to rid the Far East from your presence. After that, we're pretty much even for now.
Oh, believe me, I'm not the only one that has...you have, Cyrod has, Marescowl has, but she always has the same answer, in that her entire population is militarized. But she doesn't seem to recognize that it's all but impossible to do that...she gave Artaeum an earful on using multi-million man armies on how it wasn't economically feasible, but she's just fine to do it because her economy is large enough (and 4 times the world's economy, which Marescowl has pointed out already). Plus, the way she RPs, there's never any actual fighting that I've noticed; her posts are almost always (with the exception of the Black Carrier) just statements on how she's conquered something or how the enemy has been completely destroyed down to a man.
OOC: Welfare is worthless and only fit for lazy liberal socialists.
OOC: If so, then please do try looking at things form an unbiased OOC perspective. I understand that you and Nani are allies, but try to see things from an OOC perspective.
OOC: No, it means citizens are guaranteed a base standard of living. That means people need to make or import enough consumer goods, too. If they're working on military equipment for domestic use, they aren't making consumer goods. They're not making anything they can sell to import consumer goods, either.
OOC: I said hit her allies and anyone with her who's not a vassal. As for economic feasability, ignore it. Very little is economically feasible here; doesn't matter. Not a concern. If she wants to have an OP economy, drop military costs proportionally.
As for the way she RPs, adopt it. If she complains, once again...hypocrisy. Don't throw stones into glass houses.
No, not quite. Basically, if you/Naniyyolia/that alliance all team up and destroy me completely-as in, do what she did to Thrasz-I'll take my leave, because at that point, my country is off the map. I would really rather not do that, seeing as I've been in the AoD for almost 3 years now, but if my country is destroyed, then it'll stay gone.
Also, what stops you from doing what Naniyyolia is doing, anyway? Taking Thrasz away, and ripping nations out of my influence, in the future?
I already tried, remember? Landing the 2-million reinforcements in Thrasz, and she complained how I couldn't do it, that it was ultimately impossible, for a myriad of reasons, and that they would be destroyed completely by the defenses she magically put up in the span of hours. I already know she's a damn hypocrite, as I suspect everyone who watches how she operates does.
OOC: I do not wish to see you leave, but I do not wish to see you winning this war either. Wars don't have to be total. I don't know what makes you think that the peace treaties of this war must be so absolute when that's not the case.
What's stopping me? What's stopping me from doing all of that to you right now? I can be focusing on at least two other fronts if I wanted to, but I'm not.
OOC: Maybe instead of Thrasz, hit Lolitan from behind. She has defenses in the front. Alternatively, Yasuragi, Hapha, Asgeirra, Britain, anyone not named Nani/Kerauia. Also, just try my suggestions. If she complains, confront her.
OOC: Because Nani only RPs wars as if they are total. She has no mercy, and I'm trying to talk him into doing the same.
OOC: True, but there's no limit on how low the base standard of living can be set, nor how it may be represented. There's no theoretical upper limit either (just a practical one). There's also the issue of how such a standard of living is represented - the US has a welfare system, but it's not simply providing each citizen with a lump sum of cash. It's more complex, which is how I imagine Naniyyolia and other nations deal with such welfare states.
You're talking about opportunity cost, but again, due to how the welfare system might be represented, the people might not need to make every good they themselves consume (it'd actually be very weird for that to happen) but most likely largely work on goods for the government, export for other nations, or for internal consumption. There's also the whole service side (and above) of the production economy, which would be largely unaffected by military demands for the most part (unless directly interfered with by outside nations).
Given Nani's trading with Yasuragi, Hapha, Britain, and most likely her vassals (plus the normal, every day trade that goes on between probably every nation and every other nation), I'd argue that the welfare state she uses, depending on the scale and manner of execution, would not be overmuch of an issue.
OOC: Also, if someone could give information on Silverwood (Nani's version of the GA), that would be very nice.
OOC: I do not believe that to be the case. Nani has in the past offered to make peace treaties that are very lax and forgiving, and tends to make them less lax and forgiving as the war progresses. The war has not progressed sufficiently enough for the peace treaty to include Valcouria becoming vassalised, I don't think, but perhaps if this keeps going, that may become an option in the future.
I suggest trying for a peace treaty and seeing what conditions are actually laid down before judging it.
OOC: It's not a permanent alliance, it's just a coalition I've cobbled together in an instant. When the war is over it will be disbanded just as quickly as it was created.
Wars that aren't total are pointless; without a total victory, there is no peace. WWI taught the world that.
So you admit you would, if you could? Basically do what she's doing right now?
See, I'm already IN Lolitan, because I never left after they took up Naniyyolia's offer to become a slave. But according to her, she swept in and killed every single soldier of mine right after that, which I don't recognize; she never said she entered, and I never said I left. As far as I'm concerned, I'm still there, and will be there to liberate it, if she doesn't actually RP putting boots on the ground.
And I have confronted her. Repeatedly. Which is the product of all these arguments. But every time, she blames me for being unrealistic or unfeasible, when her actions are more worthy of such condemnation instead. And every time, she expects me to roll over and take every little bit of punishment she gives out without allowing me to give any back. And I'm done with it.
OOC: That would work if they were selling all of their military equipment, but they aren't. Without a trade surplus, how are they generating capital for imports? The problem with the service sector idea is that is filled with surplus labour after industry. There wouldn't be a surplus.
OOC: Hard to believe. Also, reply's in. Quit bitching.
Alright. Did Lolitan ever ask you to leave?
And just do it. I have a direct line with Nani right now and I'll confront her.
OOC: The conclusions of WWI led to another Great War, and WWII taught something else entirely.
No. I can take snatch land from the GA right now if I wanted, but I'm not doing it. You're saying I admit snatching land if I could, which is the other way around. I want you out of FEA and Oppressaria, and that is all I am interested in at this time.
Always remember that it's the perfect time to blockade Valcouria, and I have the means of doing just that, but I'm not doing that, because unlike you, I'm not a big fan of total wars. They're a waste of time and resources.
OOC: Grammar. Let me fix that.
No. I can snatch land off of the GA right now if I wanted, but I'm not doing that because I do not wish to snatch land off of the GA. You're saying I admit that I would take land from the GA if I could, which is the other way around. I want you out of FEA and Oppressaria, and that is all I am interested in at this time.
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