by Max Barry

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«12. . .1,0491,0501,0511,0521,0531,0541,055. . .1,8871,888»

28 members of NATO are having an Emergency meeting as we speak (11 EST).
Putin called it "a stab in the back". Now some people are beginning to worry that the curreny Syrian Conflict could eventually spiral out of control and become something more troubling.
Since Turkey is apart of NATO and they attacked a member that is part of the coalition... NATO might consider it to be a Turkish attack against themselves.
I guess we will have to wait and see.

Pomontanium wrote:There have been coalitions in the past,yet ISIS is still strong.

Well Russia alone took out 341 ISIS targets in one day. I think the french will actually do somthing because of the attacks and maybe it will be just France and Russia not the US. Hey we will never know, all we need to do this to.take out this parasite called ISIS.

Lowell Leber, Latine, and Hajirah

Apparently the Russian jet has only been over Turkish airspace for a very short time,and that's not a reason to shot down the plane.
I am with Russia on this one...

Post self-deleted by Moonriver.

Post self-deleted by Moonriver.

Pomontanium wrote:Apparently the Russian jet has only been over Turkish airspace for a very short time,and that's not a reason to shot down the plane.
I am with Russia on this one...

Russia gets away with too much, this may not be justified, but I think we all saw that something like this could/would happen. My question is, will US or anyone do anything? Let's not forget that Russia's backing Syria's Dictator

Moonriver wrote:Russia gets away with too much, this may not be justified, but I think we all saw that something like this could/would happen. My question is, will US or anyone do anything? Let's not forget that Russia's backing Syria's Dictator

That "Dictator" won the Presidential Elections in 2014 in Syria with almost 90% of the votes.It's better to back an elected leader than backing a terrorist group,which many say US does (funding and supplying ISIS)

Moonriver wrote:Russia gets away with too much, this may not be justified, but I think we all saw that something like this could/would happen. My question is, will US or anyone do anything? Let's not forget that Russia's backing Syria's Dictator

Assad is better to rule the country than dumb terrorists and like Pom said see won the Presidential election so that doesn't make him a "Dictator"

Sordica wrote:Assad is better to rule the country than dumb terrorists and like Pom said see won the Presidential election so that doesn't make him a "Dictator"

It doesn't make him "NOT a dictator," either. I mean, Hitler won an election (through duplicitous and devious means that barely gave him a slim majority, but still...). Not arguing. Just sayin'...

I personally believe that Russia is perfectly justified if it were to retaliate in this case.The Turks should be ashamed of themselves,not only do they support Daesh,they are also stupid enough to express it openly.I believe that people like Erdogan deserve to be shot.

Brandenburg and saxony

From a pure 'professional' point of view - the Russian Aircraft did enter Turkish sovereign airspace, and after multiple attempts by the Turkish Air Force to have them alter course out of their airspace, they were indeed within their 'rights' to do so.

Quensatango

Brandenburg and saxony wrote:From a pure 'professional' point of view - the Russian Aircraft did enter Turkish sovereign airspace, and after multiple attempts by the Turkish Air Force to have them alter course out of their airspace, they were indeed within their 'rights' to do so.

Well, Doesn't justify a human being passing. Turkey should be kick out of NATO and sanctioned and like Hajirah stated Erdogan should be shot and the Turks themselves agree.

Post self-deleted by Laywenrania.

Moonriver wrote:Russia gets away with too much, this may not be justified, but I think we all saw that something like this could/would happen. My question is, will US or anyone do anything? Let's not forget that Russia's backing Syria's Dictator

and let's not forget that the turks bomb the kurds instead of the ISIS in their "Anti-ISIS campaign" :<
(Interestingly germany is with Russia in this one and Gabriel describes turkey as "unreliable" and a risk)

Laywenrania wrote:and let's not forget that the turks bomb the kurds instead of the ISIS in their "Anti-ISIS campaign" :<
(Interestingly germany is with Russia in this one and Gabriel describes turkey as "unreliable" and a risk)

Right and they buy oil from isis

Brandenburg and saxony

Sordica wrote:Right and they buy oil from isis

Well Considering ISIS "Controls" the oil supplies in that region, they probably have no choice.

Post self-deleted by Quensatango.

Post self-deleted by Quensatango.

Brandenburg and saxony wrote:Well Considering ISIS "Controls" the oil supplies in that region, they probably have no choice.

still there is no accuse

Post self-deleted by Quensatango.

Sordica wrote:Well, Doesn't justify a human being passing. Turkey should be kick out of NATO and sanctioned and like Hajirah stated Erdogan should be shot and the Turks themselves agree.

I'm assuming you mean: there is no justification for killing the russian pilot as he was a human being, which is true. There is never a justification for killing any human being as we are all brothers and sisters, yet we do anyway. You cannot say there is no justification for killing this Russian pilot (which I belive was never the intention, rather the Turks simply wanted to stop the plan from procceding intor their nation) becuse he is a human being (again I'm assuming this is what you meant but I could be wrong) like in this particualr case, but then go around and say that all those human beings who are apart of ISIS are "parisites" and need to be "taken out".

In this case (from my view) the Turkish forces did give proper warning to which the pilots should have acknowedged regardless if thier orders/ leaders commanded otherwise, as such Turkey is completly justified in their actions. This is what happens when you enter somones Soverign terriotry who does not wish you to, gives you warning to stop, and yet you continue anway. So (agian in my view/oppinion) Turkey should not be kicked out of NATO and sanctioned for taking protective measures in defending its own soverginty.

Not to mention Russia supports Mr. Bashar al-Assad, who in turn Supports the PKK, which is to Turkey what ISIS is to Syria (granted a lot less extreme and barbaric).

Quensatango wrote:I'm assuming you mean: there is no justification for killing the russian pilot as he was a human being, which is true. There is never a justification for killing any human being as we are all brothers and sisters, yet we do anyway. You cannot say there is no justification for killing this Russian pilot (which I belive was never the intention, rather the Turks simply wanted to stop the plan from procceding intor their nation) becuse he is a human being (again I'm assuming this is what you meant but I could be wrong) like in this particualr case, but then go around and say that all those human beings who are apart of ISIS are "parisites" and need to be "taken out".
In this case (from my view) the Turkish forces did give proper warning to which the pilots should have acknowedged regardless if thier orders/ leaders commanded otherwise, as such Turkey is completly justified in their actions. This is what happens when you enter somones Soverign terriotry who does not wish you to, gives you warning to stop, and yet you continue anway. So (agian in my view/oppinion) Turkey should not be kicked out of NATO and sanctioned for taking protective measures in defending its own soverginty.
Not to mention Russia supports Mr. Bashar al-Assad, who in turn Supports the PKK, which is to Turkey what ISIS is to Syria (granted a lot less extreme and barbaric).

I Agree!

Quensatango wrote:I'm assuming you mean: there is no justification for killing the russian pilot as he was a human being, which is true. There is never a justification for killing any human being as we are all brothers and sisters, yet we do anyway. You cannot say there is no justification for killing this Russian pilot (which I belive was never the intention, rather the Turks simply wanted to stop the plan from procceding intor their nation) becuse he is a human being (again I'm assuming this is what you meant but I could be wrong) like in this particualr case, but then go around and say that all those human beings who are apart of ISIS are "parisites" and need to be "taken out".
In this case (from my view) the Turkish forces did give proper warning to which the pilots should have acknowedged regardless if thier orders/ leaders commanded otherwise, as such Turkey is completly justified in their actions. This is what happens when you enter somones Soverign terriotry who does not wish you to, gives you warning to stop, and yet you continue anway. So (agian in my view/oppinion) Turkey should not be kicked out of NATO and sanctioned for taking protective measures in defending its own soverginty.
Not to mention Russia supports Mr. Bashar al-Assad, who in turn Supports the PKK, which is to Turkey what ISIS is to Syria (granted a lot less extreme and barbaric).

The PKK have every right to fight the turks, and how short the Russians where in the territory there was no justification for Turkey to shoot it down.

Sordica wrote:The PKK have every right to fight the turks, and how short the Russians where in the territory there was no justification for Turkey to shoot it down.

Can you explain why the PKK have "every right" to fight the Turkish state? If it was simple peacfull protesstes or political movments then I would be more understanding, but it is an ARMED conflict against Turkey with actual Civilian deaths.

It matters not how short a time, for the Russian pilot had plenty of time to avoid entering Turkish territory in the first place, as Turkey issued many warnings. So tell me if an American warplan started heading into canada with no explenation and ignored multiple inquieres and warnings to stop, should Canada simply just let this war plane continue on its merry way being completly Ignorant to the purpose and mission of this war plane?

Brandenburg and saxony

If you look at the Major Western powers (aka UK, US, etc...) They have constant airspace incursions by Russian Air Force aircraft, the QRF units that respond to this incursions with missles, not a letter from the government asking them to "Kindly leave the airspace, or we'll get very angry". They carry missiles, to shoot the aircraft down. No if's, no but's, if the aircraft fails to respond to numerous calls from both the QRF aircraft, the Battlespace Manager, or an Air Traffic Controller, over radio, selcal, and other means, they will shoot them down. Now, with Turkey being a NATO member, they would have to operate in such circumstances according to the relevent STANAG on dealing with Airspace incursions. If they've handled it by the book, I have no problems with it. If they didn't, so be it, let justice run its course.

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