by Max Barry

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Midlands wrote:The point is that without government subsidies there can be no health care. Without government subsidies most US states would not have a single hospital as there are not enough rich customers to justify private investment in a hospital.

Customers would be richer if they didn't have 30% of their income taken

Anchillas

Anchillas wrote:Weren't you the one saying a week ago or so that Covid-19 had more deaths than America's death toll in WWII and therefore it was worse?

Yes, it is worse. Because human life is the highest value. I have never claimed that lockdowns were worse for the economy. It is you essentially claiming that a year or so of lockdowns did more damage to the economy than six years of WWII with carpet bombings and nuclear strikes.

Avelnia wrote:Reminds me of that meme with Biden.

Biden on Guns: You don't need any guns cause you can't fight the government you'll need f16s and nukes.

Biden on Jan 6: OMG our democracy almost fell to a disorganized unarmed group of rioters.

This is a lie. Our democracy almost fell to the president of the United States trying to keep his power by sending a group of terrorists to attack Congress during the counting of electoral votes. It did not fall precisely because the men actually commanding F-16s and nukes made it clear they would stand by the Constitution and disobey illegal orders from the president.

Anchillas wrote:Same applies to the BLM lefties. They wreck entire cities then proceed to complain about the capitol hill rioters. I'm not defending the capitol hill riot, I hate both the BLM and capitol hill riots. It's just that they should stop being so hypocritical.

Why do you use this bizarre comparison? Some run of the mill riots last year had absolutely nothing in common with the unique in our history violent coup attempt (carried out by none other than the outgoing president). Will you next start drawing parallels between Gabby Petito case and the Holocaust?

Maxcorp wrote:Australia has a smaller fully vaccinated population than the U.S. (U.S: 55%, Aus: 44%.)

Not for long. They started (very) late (because the locally designed vaccine had the unfortunate side effect of occasionally causing a false positive HIV test - so it got cancelled to avoid freaking people out). But now they are picking up. They are already talking about opening the country for tourism by Christmas.

Maxcorp

Kalatchevia wrote:The government already does next to nothing, but they consume tax money as if they do everything

Yes. But what if the government was good? Then would you say taxes are bad?

Midlands wrote:Not for long. They started (very) late (because the locally designed vaccine had the unfortunate side effect of occasionally causing a false positive HIV test - so it got cancelled to avoid freaking people out). But now they are picking up. They are already talking about opening the country for tourism by Christmas.

Yes. That is true. Also just saying, I had my 2nd jab yesterday.

Maxcorp wrote:Yes. But what if the government was good? Then would you say taxes are bad?

They would still be involuntarily, but if they were actually good then I would complain less

Anchillas and Maxcorp

Also completely unrelated to anything going on, but

https://www.npr.org/2021/09/23/1040035430/flying-microchip-sand-grain-northwestern-winged

Anchillas

Kalatchevia wrote:Hospitals would probablt be cheaper to build if there weren't so many regulations around them

They would also be a lot less useful. And still there would be too few customers. I don't have the latest numbers, but a decade ago half the US population accounted for 3% of all health care spending in a given year, while half of all spending was just on 5% of the population. Furthermore, just 1% accounted for 22% of spending. In other words, most of the time you really don't need health care (at least in any significant quantities). But when you do, it costs a lot (those 5% spend roughly 100 grand per person in a year, and that 1% spends a quarter million), and you are unlikely to afford it. The insurance business model won't work because many who end up among the 5% are predictable (in the first decade of this century I actually worked on those predictions. and genetic advances since then made those predictions only more accurate), so the premiums can't be affordable. The only solution is redistribution. It's that simple. You just can't square the circle and make free market work in health care. As a fan of free markets, I wish it weren't so. But as an experienced scientist in HEOR (Health Economics and Outcomes Research) I have to face the truth. Back in the USSR I rejected Communist ideology because it plainly contradicted the observed reality. And I reject Libertarian ideology for the same reason.

Kalatchevia wrote:Customers would be richer if they didn't have 30% of their income taken

Most people do not pay effective 30% tax rate. And still, even with zero taxes most people would not be able to afford health care (if they really needed it).

Look, I reject the Left's claim that health care is a right. It's a privilege. However it's a privilege that in wealthy societies everybody should be entitled to.

Midlands wrote:They would also be a lot less useful. And still there would be too few customers. I don't have the latest numbers, but a decade ago half the US population accounted for 3% of all health care spending in a given year, while half of all spending was just on 5% of the population. Furthermore, just 1% accounted for 22% of spending. In other words, most of the time you really don't need health care (at least in any significant quantities). But when you do, it costs a lot (those 5% spend roughly 100 grand per person in a year, and that 1% spends a quarter million), and you are unlikely to afford it. The insurance business model won't work because many who end up among the 5% are predictable (in the first decade of this century I actually worked on those predictions. and genetic advances since then made those predictions only more accurate), so the premiums can't be affordable. The only solution is redistribution. It's that simple. You just can't square the circle and make free market work in health care. As a fan of free markets, I wish it weren't so. But as an experienced scientist in HEOR (Health Economics and Outcomes Research) I have to face the truth. Back in the USSR I rejected Communist ideology because it plainly contradicted the observed reality. And I reject Libertarian ideology for the same reason.

If someone were to remove themselves from a system of redistributed or collective healthcare (ie, no usage of it and no payments towards it), whilst leaving the rest of the collective alone, would it still work just as well?

Kalatchevia wrote:If someone were to remove themselves from a system of redistributed or collective healthcare (ie, no usage of it and no payments towards it), whilst leaving the rest of the collective alone, would it still work just as well?

For example, if 100 citizens pay and use a healthcare system that can support 100 people, and one person leaves, would those 99 remaining still be able to use a system that only supports 99 people?

Maxcorp wrote:Yes. That is true. Also just saying, I had my 2nd jab yesterday.

I had it in first half of April.

The Aussies (and everybody else) better fix the pandemic. Some time in the next decade I will retire. And I have this idea of flying to NZ (perhaps with a stop in Tahiti) and then Australia and spending quite some time there. Now it's not very practical as I'll be jet lagged half of vacation. At least with Europe the time difference is just 6 hours.

Kalatchevia wrote:If someone were to remove themselves from a system of redistributed or collective healthcare (ie, no usage of it and no payments towards it), whilst leaving the rest of the collective alone, would it still work just as well?

For small number - yes. For a large number - no. Especially if the rich leave.

Kalatchevia wrote:They would still be involuntarily, but if they were actually good then I would complain less

Ok, don’t complain about the roads…

Maxcorp wrote:Ok, don’t complain about the roads…

Ah yes the wonderful high quality roads

Maxcorp

Kalatchevia wrote:Ah yes the wonderful high quality roads

But apart from roads, public order, sanitation, education, health care, rule of law, stable currency, retirement security, fire protection, air traffic control and intellectual property protections, what have the governments ever done for us? (should be read in the voice of John Cleese)

Kalatchevia wrote:Ah yes the wonderful high quality roads

Yasss

Post self-deleted by Anchillas.

Anchillas

Midlands wrote:This is a lie. Our democracy almost fell to the president of the United States trying to keep his power by sending a group of terrorists to attack Congress during the counting of electoral votes. It did not fall precisely because the men actually commanding F-16s and nukes made it clear they would stand by the Constitution and disobey illegal orders from the president.

And don't forget Joe Biden is a puppet for the World Economic Forum. His administration and campaign has the same slogan as The Great Reset, which is "Build Back Better". Many other world leaders as well. Do you really want to live in a Global Totalitarian Elitist government? Then don't vote for Joe Biden in 2024.

Kalatchevia wrote:Also completely unrelated to anything going on, but

https://www.npr.org/2021/09/23/1040035430/flying-microchip-sand-grain-northwestern-winged

I hate Earth. Humanity can never get along, can it? Why do other people want to monitor others? For worthless money or power? We are a pathetic example of an intelligent species.

Avelnia

Midlands wrote:Back in the USSR I rejected Communist ideology because it plainly contradicted the observed reality. And I reject Libertarian ideology for the same reason.

But Midlands, you have lived through Communism. You've never lived through Libertarianism, so you can't judge it. You can't go around saying it denies reality when it hasn't even been brought into reality yet.

Avelnia

Anchillas

Midlands wrote:But apart from roads, public order, sanitation, education, health care, rule of law, stable currency, retirement security, fire protection, air traffic control and intellectual property protections, what have the governments ever done for us? (should be read in the voice of John Cleese)

Governments should only handle emergency services, such as the police force, ambulances (but not actual healthcare), and the fire department.

Anchillas

Midlands wrote:Yes, it is worse. Because human life is the highest value. I have never claimed that lockdowns were worse for the economy. It is you essentially claiming that a year or so of lockdowns did more damage to the economy than six years of WWII with carpet bombings and nuclear strikes.

I never said lockdowns did more damage to the economy than WWII. My older relatives lived through it in Fascist Italy for God's sake! 75 million people died in WWII globally, compared to Covid-19's 4.7 million globally! The economy wouldn't matter in a world War, only military spending and life preservation would.

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