Right to LifeBoard

First And Only Archive wrote:

To a given definition of natural, humans are creations of nature, this all human technology and culture is natural, which makes Twitter, BDSM and American Football as natural as trees and earthworms.
To a different definition of natural, a rolling landscape that is covered with green grassland might be called natural, even though it exists because of human-led deforestation with hills formed from mining activity.

So what is natural? And why is natural moral?

Violence is a natural part of human biology. We're designed as animals capable of violence, able to strike out, bite, rend and injure. Our forward facing eyes help us focus and aim at prey, or at fellow humans. Our natural aggression allows us to kill. So murder is natural. Hell, rape could be considered natural. But these things aren't moral.

Forming clothing, cooking food, building shelters - some might consider these to be "unnatural". But equally, clothing the poor, feeding the hungry, giving shelter to the needy, these are often considered to be moral.

So saying that homosexuality is wrong because it's unnatural is fallacious on two counts.

First, homosexuality is only unnatural if you define it as being so. If homosexual attraction exists biologically, it could be said to be natural.

Second, equating "natural" to "moral" is patently incorrect. Plenty of moral activities don't fit definitions of naturalness. Plenty of immoral activities do.

"Deviation" simply means not ascribing to your expectations. If you set your worldview to saying that love is good, and that homosexual love can be beautiful, then perception shifts. It then becomes deviant to show prejudice or hatred against homosexual love.

To me, hatefulness is immoral, and thus "deviance" comes from anti-social and misanthropic bigotry.

Eh, these are just your value judgements. You've started with the axiom that homosexuality and transgenderism are undesirable, so you categorise cultural trends that lead towards such things as problems.

If your axioms are different, your conclusions are different.

Essentially, all your arguments here are based on "homosexuality is bad". The arguments are circular.

One could equally construct arguments along the lines of "religion is bad". I wouldn't argue that, but asshats like Richard Dawkins might do. That would lead to the same sorts of arguments but with different targets. Religion is bad because it is a deviance. It is a harmful aberration. Therefore cultures that create religions are harmful. Etc. Etc.

It's the same close-mindedness from a different directions.

To me, as an atheist, the best part of human beings is Love. Love Thy Neighbour, and all that.

I believe Jesus said something similar.

Phydios wrote:

viewtopic.php?p=35796299#p35796299

Culture of Life wrote:

First, I had some personal circumstances that affected my ability to participate in NationStates. I followed my own mantra that real life always comes first, and I logged onto NationStates only to keep my primary nations alive -- this nation and Christian Democrats.

Second, the automated recruitment script went down because of an error of some kind. I need to contact the moderators because it concerned our API privileges. I think, but am not sure, that a computer glitch caused our script to exceed the rate limit.

Third, it's good to see that most/all of the players that I remember are still here.

Fourth, it's good to see that we still have a government and that the region has not fallen into total anarchy. If somebody could give me an update on the state of the region -- preferably on this message board -- that would be swell.

Fifth, it's a great tragedy that the Irish people and government now tolerate abortion in their laws. In December, the Dáil (Assembly) voted 90-15 and the Seanad (Senate) voted 27-5 to legalize abortion until the 12th week. Abortions became available on January 1st.

Sixth, on a brighter note, the pro-life movement has seen some success in the United States. Contrary to the "woke" millennial stereotype, young Americans have been more vocal and more supportive of the right to life than their parents and grandparents.

https://thehill.com/sites/default/files/screen_shot_2019-06-07_at_1.10.31_pm.jpg

If the pro-life movement can gain a foothold, abolishing abortion in one state, it can show America that a society without abortion is not the twisted dark fantasy of a Margaret Atwood novel. Rather, it is a society that truly practices America's and humanity's best principles.

Seventh, the ongoing public debate between the Sohrab Ahmari camp and the David French camp has been intriguing. If you don't know what I'm talking about, see the manifesto "Against the Dead Consensus," published in First Things.

Culture of Life wrote:

First, I had some personal circumstances that affected my ability to participate in NationStates. I followed my own mantra that real life always comes first, and I logged onto NationStates only to keep my primary nations alive -- this nation and Christian Democrats.

Second, the automated recruitment script went down because of an error of some kind. I need to contact the moderators because it concerned our API privileges. I think, but am not sure, that a computer glitch caused our script to exceed the rate limit.

Third, it's good to see that most/all of the players that I remember are still here.

Fourth, it's good to see that we still have a government and that the region has not fallen into total anarchy. If somebody could give me an update on the state of the region -- preferably on this message board -- that would be swell.

Fifth, it's a great tragedy that the Irish people and government now tolerate abortion in their laws. In December, the Dáil (Assembly) voted 90-15 and the Seanad (Senate) voted 27-5 to legalize abortion until the 12th week. Abortions became available on January 1st.

Sixth, on a brighter note, the pro-life movement has seen some success in the United States. Contrary to the "woke" millennial stereotype, young Americans have been more vocal and more supportive of the right to life than their parents and grandparents.

https://thehill.com/sites/default/files/screen_shot_2019-06-07_at_1.10.31_pm.jpg

If the pro-life movement can gain a foothold, abolishing abortion in one state, it can show America that a society without abortion is not the twisted dark fantasy of a Margaret Atwood novel. Rather, it is a society that truly practices America's and humanity's best principles.

Seventh, the ongoing public debate between the Sohrab Ahmari camp and the David French camp has been intriguing. If you don't know what I'm talking about, see the manifesto "Against the Dead Consensus," published in First Things.

Culture of Life wrote:

First, I had some personal circumstances that affected my ability to participate in NationStates. I followed my own mantra that real life always comes first, and I logged onto NationStates only to keep my primary nations alive -- this nation and Christian Democrats.

Second, the automated recruitment script went down because of an error of some kind. I need to contact the moderators because it concerned our API privileges. I think, but am not sure, that a computer glitch caused our script to exceed the rate limit.

Third, it's good to see that most/all of the players that I remember are still here.

Fourth, it's good to see that we still have a government and that the region has not fallen into total anarchy. If somebody could give me an update on the state of the region -- preferably on this message board -- that would be swell.

Fifth, it's a great tragedy that the Irish people and government now tolerate abortion in their laws. In December, the Dáil (Assembly) voted 90-15 and the Seanad (Senate) voted 27-5 to legalize abortion until the 12th week. Abortions became available on January 1st.

Sixth, on a brighter note, the pro-life movement has seen some success in the United States. Contrary to the "woke" millennial stereotype, young Americans have been more vocal and more supportive of the right to life than their parents and grandparents.

https://thehill.com/sites/default/files/screen_shot_2019-06-07_at_1.10.31_pm.jpg

If the pro-life movement can gain a foothold, abolishing abortion in one state, it can show America that a society without abortion is not the twisted dark fantasy of a Margaret Atwood novel. Rather, it is a society that truly practices America's and humanity's best principles.

Seventh, the ongoing public debate between the Sohrab Ahmari camp and the David French camp has been intriguing. If you don't know what I'm talking about, see the manifesto "Against the Dead Consensus," published in First Things.

Edit: sent