Union of Christian NationsBoard

New swaraelia wrote:

I am so sorry but I have to gtg for a while and I really don’t want to because you’re all so nice but life is hard. Please understand friends

I'm sorry...

New swaraelia wrote:

I am so sorry but I have to gtg for a while and I really don’t want to because you’re all so nice but life is hard. Please understand friends

I hope things get better for you soon, don't let any hardships cloud the love and light that your soul contains!

Asher wrote:

I’d be interested to hear your perspective on topics such as Just War Theory and if Christians should use self defense? My personal convictions are sort of in the middle. I pray violence would never need to be used, but I also know sometimes the most loving thing I could do in a situation might require violence such as stopping a woman from being raped or murdered. I also think their is several instances where we see Jesus both support self defense, but also pacifism. I think the point is to constantly keep the believer thinking on whether or not his actions are right in a situation.

I wholeheartedly agree with this. I can understand the region's pacifist stance, but WISE [God-fearing with understanding] action must be taken when the time is right. It's like looking forlornly at a starving man, and telling him that you'll pray for him, knowing that you have $5 in your pocket to buy him a McDonald's meal. That's still living the gospel in action.

Or being a peacemaker in a conflict that you see in front of you in a supermarket; that's living the gospel in action. This is my take on this.

Geneviev wrote:

We are gaining the fun of a game while getting involved in some kind of warfare.

Not at all. Some people on this site feel right at home because many do not have a social life for various regions. When their home gets raided, that's a direct threat to the humble abode of the individual, or even, the people, of that region. If your home was raided by the a militant gang, a just Christian home or organization would do all they can to defend you. It correlates with standing up for the weak, which is a form of love for your neighbor.

And even if you do gain the fun, it's a part of the game isn't it? After all, that's what game are for?

Geneviev wrote:

Sure, it's what the game is for in general. But this region is also meant to be more than a game, so trying to betray specific values for the game would be odd.

Also, it might just be me, but I haven't had fun from NS in a while.

What values? To defend an ally is to stand up for the weak! That demonstrates great value because it's an act of service.

Geneviev wrote:

Pacifism is more valuable, turning the other cheek is what Jesus commanded. At least that's what I believe.

This is an extremely dangerous statement and strawman, because, God forbid, suppose a predator makes his move on you to rape you, would you turn the other cheek? No! You'd fight for your life. You'd most likely use any available object around you as a weapon to get him away or neutralize him, or even scream so you can be heard. Whatever method you'd use, you wouldn't turn the other cheek.

Geneviev wrote:

First: That's a cheerful thought.
Second: I can't necessarily predict my own behavior in any situation, but I can tell you that I would still believe in staying nonviolent. The lovely people of NSG wouldn't be happy with it, but I believe in preventing those situations before they happen as far as possible. It's not perfect, but it's better.

Preventing rape? That's utter garbage, in my humble opinion. Do you not read up on the thousands of stories of people who were raped? Rape implies forced, non-consensual, aggravated sexual assault [I even know of rape victims], and you're telling me that you'd still be non-violent? Please reconsider that. Please.

EDIT: Please consider https://www.healthyplace.com/abuse/rape/rape-victim-stories-real-stories-of-being-raped

Geneviev wrote:

It's mostly garbage, not completely. I rely on that little bit. I wouldn't ask anyone else to, but I am committed to nonviolence to that extent.

Also, to clarify for the world, preventing in this case means "stay home with a book." It's always safer that way in general.

Geneviev, you're outrageous if you hold nonviolence when you're on the brink of being a rape victim, and I really hope you reconsider that before it's too late. The reality and extent to being non-violent has its limit and boundaries, and you may have to be in situations where you'll need to apply self-defense. You need to protect yourself when you have the chance, because that's the ultimate and probably most reasonable way to 'prevent rape', even though the idea is utterly insulting, really, to rape victims.

Many would have wished to use violence to protect themselves from the predators.

EDIT: In the United States, we have the 2nd amendment for a reason, which can extend to owning a mace. To all of our female members of our Congregation, I really encourage you to have and use any method to defend yourself when you're found in the midst of danger. I know way too many female rape victims in my circle of friends, I've seen the horrors of the fools who post it online, read many tragic articles, and it pisses me off. Defend yourself when you can, and stand up for the weak.

Geneviev wrote:

I know it's ridiculous, probably stupid, and definitely dangerous. That's why I would never hold anyone else to that standard, and I don't know for sure if I even would. But right now, from the position of not being in that situation, I would like to believe that I can stand by my own, admittedly insane, beliefs to not do harm.

I mean this in the most loving way possible: please defend yourself when you can, and stand up for the weak! This should be applied to our diplomatic stance for the region! I do not mean to insult you in any way [I know I'm being a little harsh in my words].

I believe this should be a topic of discussion among our Elders, or maybe even a regional vote. We could set up a small regional paramilitary which could hold members who CHOOSE to be a part of it and use the site's resources to defend our brethren across the site. I refuse to look forlornly at allied regions being terrorized when we could do something about it.

EDIT:

Geneviev wrote:

And, edit: I deleted those posts, maybe Ndaku could just snip my quotes, so UCN can be a more cheerful place.

Please don't feel the need to delete your posts. I value what you say dearly, because it gives me perspective, but some perspectives I simply cannot endorse due to the reality of things. I'm sorry if I'm a bit harsh, but it's a very sensitive thing to me to be able to defend when you can.

Ndaku wrote:

This is an extremely dangerous statement and strawman, because, God forbid, suppose a predator makes his move on you to rape you, would you turn the other cheek? No! You'd fight for your life. You'd most likely use any available object around you as a weapon to get him away or neutralize him, or even scream so you can be heard. Whatever method you'd use, you wouldn't turn the other cheek.

I think this is where my pacifist beliefs are really challenged as I would never blame someone for using self-defence is such a situation. I don’t think anyone could, Geneviev included. The tough question is what you would do as a believer. I think in this case you should do every thing you can to get that person away bearing in mind this is a pretty extreme situation and in saying that I’m in no way diminishing the extreme injustice of rape which is among the worst of crimes.

In a more common situation, someone at school, who admittedly was on drugs said they were going to punch me - they did and I did nothing back. I was on the ground and their guilt was so high. It really serves as a turnaround in their behaviour and they became a much better person. No one had ever not punched back so it was all a shock. In the end this led to someone being less violent - a kingdom moment if you ask me!

I think that a key part of Jesus’ pacifist teaching is to ‘work for the good of others’. For me that means supporting social programs such as quality health and education, education about respectful relationships, drug and alcohol counselling etc. as research shows this reduces crime. We should be desperately working to bring about these things to work towards a more just, peaceful world.

Being in Australia, we have much lower rates of inequality and crime. Additionally our culture is less concerned with militarism, guns and ‘my rights’ and have a much more egalitarian ethos. Sooo... I think Australian society is a good case in point for a more harmonious society as a result of having a good safety net and a (slightly) less individualistic culture.

Also note than anyone can propose a change to any law or to the constitution by introducing it either to The Board of Elders or The Assembly.

Well, what an interesting debate I just read.

My vision regarding violence (or non-violence) and what I understand that Jesus taught us through the Bible is, broadly speaking, that as a general principle, Jesus asks us to turn the other cheek when someone attacks us in any way. However, I also believe that, in exceptional circumstances, we can exercise acts of violence to avoid a greater evil towards ourselves or towards others. But those acts of violence should never lead to killing the aggressor, killing is always wrong.

I also believe that God always looks into our hearts what is our intention when it comes to defending ourselves or defending others, therefore we must always do so with the intention of repelling violence in the least violent way possible, according to the circumstances (for example, hitting an aggressor to disable him and then calling the police).

On the other hand, I think that most of the acts of violence that we see in today's societies are not acts of physical aggression but rather acts of omission (by the States and by many individuals) that generate inequality, hunger and lack of opportunity for many people, what those of us who adhere to liberation theology generally refer to as the "structural sin of society." Living in Latin America and having had the opportunity to travel almost entirely as a backpacker for 2 years (from the favelas of Rio and the Amazon jungle in Brazil to the Venezuelan and Colombian Caribbean, passing through the wonderful Bolivian landscapes, among others) made me see the suffering firsthand of many people and the blind eye of the States and the political class of this sub-Continent (Well, I also saw beautiful things). These are also acts of violence just as reprehensible as acts of physical violence, and that every Christian should repel with concrete (and as pacifist as possible) actions.