by Max Barry

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Uprea wrote:As the proposal in its self was "just a proposal", I dont see how Thromsa could not have simply added the Amendment to the existing Proposal. In his words he stated Thromsa "presents the following amendment to the resolution proposal"
For me that indicates he would like to add the amendment to the existing proposal. As the amendment was never removed again from the original proposal, the amendment is now formally part of the existing proposal by the wish of the Union of Thromsa.
To sum up, the vote is called for all nations to vote upon the Resolution Proposal plus the Amendment, as it was never stated otherwise.

This is not just a proposal; this is Resolution nr. 24. Bills and resolutions are not supposed to be treated carelessly like this, especially by an official institution like the League. Either Thromsa could have withdrawn the original resolution and presented a new one, or they can file an amendment, but in the latter case, the League should first vote to adopt the amendment or not and then vote on the final version of the resolution. The whole fact that the League doesn't seem to take its own procedures seriously, could actually be reason for Nhoor to agree with Thromsa's resolution, but as it is, I'm not sure if the outcome of this vote can be considered valid.

Ioudaia, Thromsa, Uprea, and Totomishin

Gaillimh ciarrai

Totomishin wrote:Sorry to go off topic, but since I have setup TotoMishin's economy to export cars, steel and other vehicles (buses, trains, planes and other civilian ones not anything military) would it be fair to say that we export to the majority of the Western Isles?

I doubt if we are the no.1 exporter to anywhere but would it be realistic to say we frequently end up in the top 10 for most countries (specially for vehicles and steel)?

Well, as the number of countries I trade with can be counted with on one hand I´d say you are right, but if selling 20 cars makes you into the top 10 then congratulations :)

Gaillimh ciarrai

Ainslie wrote:add in the massive floods taking out australian agriculture after it all got burnt out a few years ago

I never noticed how close my capital´s name is to your country.... is your country of irish decent as well?

Nhoor wrote:This is not just a proposal; this is Resolution nr. 24. Bills and resolutions are not supposed to be treated carelessly like this, especially by an official institution like the League. Either Thromsa could have withdrawn the original resolution and presented a new one, or they can file an amendment, but in the latter case, the League should first vote to adopt the amendment or not and then vote on the final version of the resolution. The whole fact that the League doesn't seem to take its own procedures seriously, could actually be reason for Nhoor to agree with Thromsa's resolution, but as it is, I'm not sure if the outcome of this vote can be considered valid.

I see your point. I agree that this is a Resolution, but as it was not voted upon until now, it is only a Proposal. Its not enacted legislation.
The fact of the matter is, there are no specific regulations implementing an amendment can not be added to a resolution after it was presented to the League. With no regulations guarding that, Thromsa could add the amendment without having to put a vote on it. This would be different if this was not just a proposal but a manifested resolution or if anyone but the author had presented this before the League, but as it seems, there are no regulations and no insitutions or nations who could be called upon to enforce this.

Elon Musk bringing internet to the Amazon, great day.

Uprea wrote:The fact of the matter is, there are no specific regulations implementing an amendment can not be added to a resolution after it was presented to the League.

and that's exactly the problem, the League has no rules of procedure since almost none of us are used to how this would actually work. Implementing them would be possible, but difficult and of questionable worth.

Nhoor wrote:snippetie

Since there are no procedural rules to the League I considered that a pre-vote amendment done by the proposing member should be considered as an integral part of the resolution. And thus this vote would be on the proposal as amended.

Thromsa wrote:Since there are no procedural rules to the League I considered that a pre-vote amendment done by the proposing member should be considered as an integral part of the resolution. And thus this vote would be on the proposal as amended.

That was my assumption, since you’re the draft resolution’s sole sponsor and you submitted the amendment, the rules of procedure I know would consider it a friendly amendment and be instantly adopted into the draft resolution.

Dormill and Stiura wrote:That was my assumption, since you’re the draft resolution’s sole sponsor and you submitted the amendment, the rules of procedure I know would consider it a friendly amendment and be instantly adopted into the draft resolution.

One could, in order to avoid setting up a complicated rulebook, give a general guide on how to submit proposals and have complicated cases of formal and/or material problems go before a court-like institution implicated in the League apparatus itself.

Uprea wrote:One could, in order to avoid setting up a complicated rulebook, give a general guide on how to submit proposals and have complicated cases of formal and/or material problems go before a court-like institution implicated in the League apparatus itself.

Why would a formal institution be needed for rules of procedure? That stuff is handled by the committee chair (in this case, the League Sec-Gen) on the spot.

Dormill and Stiura wrote:Why would a formal institution be needed for rules of procedure? That stuff is handled by the committee chair (in this case, the League Sec-Gen) on the spot.

Well if that is the case, cant he handle the present issue with the addition of the amendment?

Uprea wrote:Well if that is the case, cant he handle the present issue with the addition of the amendment?

That’s on Roendavar and/or Aizcona

Uprea wrote:Well if that is the case, cant he handle the present issue with the addition of the amendment?

He did:

Twi league account wrote:"The period of discussion for Resolution No. 24, Dissolution of the League of The Western Isles, has elapsed. The chamber now moves into the voting period for Resolution No. 24, along with its amendments by the principal author. ALL LEAGUE MEMBER NATIONS CAN NOW DECLARE THEIR VOTE. All declarations of support or dissent before the voting period must be restated in order to be counted as a vote. This voting period will last until May 20, 2022."

viewtopic.php?p=39602026#p39602026

(My change in emphasis.)

Gaillimh ciarrai wrote:I never noticed how close my capital´s name is to your country.... is your country of irish decent as well?

Nope - lifted the nation name from an imaginary country I had as a kid which stole the name of a suburb in australias capital

Nhoor, Scaedia, and Totomishin

Dormill and Stiura wrote:and that's exactly the problem, the League has no rules of procedure since almost none of us are used to how this would actually work. Implementing them would be possible, but difficult and of questionable worth.

Well, I guess I decided to try it anyways. Here's my proposal for a shorthand rules of procedure for the League going forward.

  1. Any member may ask the Chair to open a debate on a topic, providing:

    1. It is clearly defined,

    2. It is relevant to the Charter*,

    3. It is necessary for the League to address it.

    After which a vote is conducted on whether to open debate, followed by:

  2. ** Once debate is opened, any member may draft and submit a working paper to the Chair, and introduce it once it is ready to be read:

    1. During this time, the author is allowed to independently amend their working paper and debate its contents with other members,

    2. During this time, the author shall collect signatures and sponsors of their working paper, two sponsors (not including themselves) or three signatories is necessary for a working paper to be adopted as a draft resolution.

    After which a vote is conducted on whether to introduce the working paper as a draft resolution, followed by:

  3. Once a working paper is introduced as a draft resolution, any member may debate the merits and contents of the resolution and propose amendments; if the sponsors introduce or affirm an amendment, it will be immediately adopted, otherwise it will be voted on when the debate on the draft resolution is closed.

    After which a vote is conducted on whether to close debate on the draft, followed by:

  4. Once debate on the draft resolution is closed, all unfriendly amendments are considered and a second reading of the draft is conducted. After this, the members may either adopt the draft or reconsider and move back one step.

  5. Once a resolution is adopted, the topic is closed and debate will move to the next topic. Once all topics are resolved, the League Assembly is considered adjourned until the next topic is introduced.

* I'm half-questioning the enforceability of this rule but it's meant for people to set a topic directly related to Matters of Concern as outlined in the Charter. This also includes enforcement of Member Obligations, Peacekeeping, and amending the Charter.
** Similarly, I'm questioning the point of using this thinking from a perspective that's not used to parliamentary procedure. While it's a valid point to not include this step and move directly into steps 3 and 4, I feel like in a written RP environment having the essential parts of a resolution written, presented, and amended before it's considered ready to be voted on as a full resolution is useful. It might be possible to merge 2 and 3 into the same process but I'm not immediately comfortable with it.

New aapelistan, Segentova, Nhoor, Solaryia, and 2 othersHyukai, and Uprea

Ainslie wrote:Nope - lifted the nation name from an imaginary country I had as a kid which stole the name of a suburb in australias capital

This just in, Ainslie is a thief

San Montagna, Alteran republics, Nhoor, Solaryia, and 1 otherTotomishin

Scaedia wrote:This just in, Ainslie is a thief

Nothing compares to the massive sequence of events that led to the name of Solaryia in its current form

Scaedia

Hello, everyone! I have just decided to move this puppet nation of mine here from my puppet storage in order to develop it more, as well as possibly engage in some NS RPs! The theme I'm going for with this account is something like Arstotzka from the video game Papers Please. I have been on NS for quite a while now, so I have heard many mentions of this region, and decided to check it out!

Stosal

Gaillimh ciarrai

Costavozka wrote:Hello, everyone! I have just decided to move this puppet nation of mine here from my puppet storage in order to develop it more, as well as possibly engage in some NS RPs! The theme I'm going for with this account is something like Arstotzka from the video game Papers Please. I have been on NS for quite a while now, so I have heard many mentions of this region, and decided to check it out!

Welcome to our most glorious country, papers please or I have you thrown in jail.

Anyway, welcome :)

Alteran republics





Marksleih Carbyd (MaCb) V/38
A staple of 1930s Alteran tank design

The Marksleih Carbyd V/38 was the continuation of the V/31 tank design fielded by the Alteran Forces.
Several hundred vehicles were manufactured, which served with the Alteran forces from 1939 to the 1950s in a variety of roles.
At the outbreak of war, it became an iconic vehicle wielded by the Alteran military, used primarily as a frontline medium tank.
Known for its reliability and robustness, it would continue to serve armed forces around the region in a variety of configurations,
ranging from command vehicles, light tanks and self-propelled artillery.



Marksleih Carbyd (MaCb) V/38

Marksleih Carbyd (MaCb) V/38


Photo of MaCb V/38 from the side-view


Name

Marksleih Carbyd (MaCb) V/38

Role

Medium Tank

Origin

Alteran republics

Manufacturer

Alteran Motor-Carriage Company (A.M.C.)
Talbot Engineering Works

Produced

1938 - 1946

In-Service

1939 - 1951

Primary Users

Alteran republics

Type

Light Tank

Complement

3 crew
> Gunner / Loader
> Commander
> Driver

Armament

x1 37 mm Anti-Tank Gun or
x1 57 mm Anti-Tank Gun or
x1 20 mm auto-cannon
x2 Co-axial M/HMG
x1 Hull M/HMG

The Marksleih Carbyd (MaCb) V/38, also known as the TalAMC V/38, was an Alteran Imperial War era light tank designed by the Alteran Motor-Carriage Company (A.M.C.), and later constructed by the Talbot Engineering Works. It was initially armed with a 37 mm anti-tank gun, along with coaxial and hull mounted .303 cal machine guns. However, as the war quickly progressed, the 37 mm anti-tank gun was deemed obsolete, thus a 57 mm anti-tank gun was fitted. Armour protection on the vehicle had been considerably improved over the V/31 design, overall equipped with armour ranging between 5 mm and 50 mm thickness, which - thanks to a combination of welding and sloping - was proven to be effective against most anti-tank rounds up until the middle of the Imperial War. Like its V/31 predecessor, the V/38 tank was considered advanced for its time, featuring advanced design features such as an all-welded construction and used periscopes for visibility rather than view slits.

Several hundred were constructed for the Alteran Defence Forces; remaining a staple of the Alteran military throughout the Imperial War. Thanks to its proven design, reliability and modability, the V/38 would survive into the 1950s in a variety of combat roles.

Design


Probably the most innovative tank in 1934, the Marksleih Carbyd (MaCb) V/38 was the first Alteran vehicle equipped with a torsion-bar suspension system. It was quite revolutionary for the time, providing a far smoother and efficient ride than the old leaf springs. It was largely based on the previous V/31. It was a light tank, but with larger front drive sprockets, four double road wheels of the same diameter as the idler wheel, and two return rollers. The hull was entirely welded.

The V/38 weighed only 7.9 tons, with decent armour, and a 20 mm Verhun QF autocannon, assisted by a two 7.7 mm Verhun machine-gun. It was propelled by a Rowlands V8 cylinder 7.9 litre engine developing 120 kW. A slightly revised, 8.5 ton heavy version entered service with the Alteran army, the V/38D, which featured a 37 mm cannon and an improved turret. During the war they received additional welded armor, up to 50 mm on the glacis and turret mantlet.

Wartime evolution dictated many changes in armor and storage facilities. These came along with a weight nearing 9.3 tons with the additional 50 mm appliqué welded armor. The turret was modified with a new mantlet, side hatches and a commander cupola. The armament was a Verhun 57 mm anti-tank gun coupled with twin Verhun 7.7 mm machine-guns. The vehicle received the factory designation V/38L. An upgraded variant, the V/38N was produced from late 1941. This vehicle, along with the 57 mm anti-tank gun, featured a 140 kW engine, an additional 50 mm of appliqué welded armor, as well as a new command cupola and sighting system for the gunner

Variants


Due to its short service life, few variants were designed and fielded by the Alteran Defence Force; though some foreign militaries saw potential.


Image

Variant

Role

Developers

Features

MaCb V/38
Prototype

Prototype

Alteran republics
- Alteran Motor-Carriage Company (A.M.C.)
- Talbot Engineering Works

Weight
- 8+ tonnes

Length / Width / Height
- 5.2 m / 2.0 m / 2.2 m

Crew / Passengers
- 3 ( Driver, Gunner / Loader, Commander )

Main Armament
- 20 mm auto-cannon

Engine / Top Speed
- 120 kW Petrol / 40 kph

MaCb V/38
Medium Tank

Medium Tank

Alteran republics
- Alteran Motor-Carriage Company (A.M.C.)
- Talbot Engineering Works

Weight
- 8+ tonnes

Length / Width / Height
- 5.2 m / 2.0 m / 2.2 m

Crew / Passengers
- 3 ( Driver, Gunner / Loader, Commander )

Main Armament
- 20 mm auto-cannon

Engine / Top Speed
- 120 kW Petrol / 40 kph

MaCb V/38D
Medium Tank

Medium Tank

Alteran republics
- Alteran Motor-Carriage Company (A.M.C.)
- Talbot Engineering Works

Weight
- 9+ tonnes

Length / Width / Height
- 5.2 m / 2.0 m / 2.2 m

Crew / Passengers
- 3 ( Driver, Gunner / Loader, Commander )

Main Armament
- 37 mm anti-tank gun

Engine / Top Speed
- 120 kW Petrol / 40 kph

MaCb V/38L
Medium Tank

Medium Tank

Alteran republics
- Alteran Motor-Carriage Company (A.M.C.)
- Talbot Engineering Works

Weight
- 8+ tonnes

Length / Width / Height
- 5.2 m / 2.0 m / 2.2 m

Crew / Passengers
- 3 ( Driver, Gunner / Loader, Commander )

Main Armament
- 57 mm anti-tank gun

Engine / Top Speed
- 120 kW Petrol / 40 kph

MaCb V/38N
Medium Tank

Medium Tank

Alteran republics
- Alteran Motor-Carriage Company (A.M.C.)
- Talbot Engineering Works

Weight
- 9+ tonnes

Length / Width / Height
- 5.2 m / 2.1 m / 2.2 m

Crew / Passengers
- 3 ( Driver, Gunner / Loader, Commander )

Main Armament
- 57 mm anti-tank gun

Engine / Top Speed
- 140 kW Petrol / 45 kph

Operators


  • Alteran republics - Alteran Ground Defence Force (Retired by 1951)

Related Articles


-


Merito non pareret. | By merit, not birth.



GOV.ALT service is designed and maintained by HORIZON Inc.
on behalf of the Alteran Council of Information, Altera.



Read dispatch

Some more early IW tanks; eager to export!
I can see these vehicles being of frontline use until around '43/44.

Alteran republics

TA MY LHONG CHROWAL LANE DY ASTANYN

Nhoor made my day 😂

Nhoor and Totomishin

Post self-deleted by Totomishin.

Dormill and Stiura wrote:
Well, I guess I decided to try it anyways. Here's my proposal for a shorthand rules of procedure for the League going forward.

  1. Any member may ask the Chair to open a debate on a topic, providing:

    1. It is clearly defined,

    2. It is relevant to the Charter*,

    3. It is necessary for the League to address it.

    After which a vote is conducted on whether to open debate, followed by:

  2. ** Once debate is opened, any member may draft and submit a working paper to the Chair, and introduce it once it is ready to be read:

    1. During this time, the author is allowed to independently amend their working paper and debate its contents with other members,

    2. During this time, the author shall collect signatures and sponsors of their working paper, two sponsors (not including themselves) or three signatories is necessary for a working paper to be adopted as a draft resolution.

    After which a vote is conducted on whether to introduce the working paper as a draft resolution, followed by:

  3. Once a working paper is introduced as a draft resolution, any member may debate the merits and contents of the resolution and propose amendments; if the sponsors introduce or affirm an amendment, it will be immediately adopted, otherwise it will be voted on when the debate on the draft resolution is closed.

    After which a vote is conducted on whether to close debate on the draft, followed by:

  4. Once debate on the draft resolution is closed, all unfriendly amendments are considered and a second reading of the draft is conducted. After this, the members may either adopt the draft or reconsider and move back one step.

  5. Once a resolution is adopted, the topic is closed and debate will move to the next topic. Once all topics are resolved, the League Assembly is considered adjourned until the next topic is introduced.

* I'm half-questioning the enforceability of this rule but it's meant for people to set a topic directly related to Matters of Concern as outlined in the Charter. This also includes enforcement of Member Obligations, Peacekeeping, and amending the Charter.
** Similarly, I'm questioning the point of using this thinking from a perspective that's not used to parliamentary procedure. While it's a valid point to not include this step and move directly into steps 3 and 4, I feel like in a written RP environment having the essential parts of a resolution written, presented, and amended before it's considered ready to be voted on as a full resolution is useful. It might be possible to merge 2 and 3 into the same process but I'm not immediately comfortable with it.

These sound very reasonable, they would make the whole process a lot easier and smoother. I am all for implementing this.

Dormill and Stiura wrote:
Well, I guess I decided to try it anyways. Here's my proposal for a shorthand rules of procedure for the League going forward.

  1. Any member may ask the Chair to open a debate on a topic, providing:

    1. It is clearly defined,

    2. It is relevant to the Charter*,

    3. It is necessary for the League to address it.

    After which a vote is conducted on whether to open debate, followed by:

  2. ** Once debate is opened, any member may draft and submit a working paper to the Chair, and introduce it once it is ready to be read:

    1. During this time, the author is allowed to independently amend their working paper and debate its contents with other members,

    2. During this time, the author shall collect signatures and sponsors of their working paper, two sponsors (not including themselves) or three signatories is necessary for a working paper to be adopted as a draft resolution.

    After which a vote is conducted on whether to introduce the working paper as a draft resolution, followed by:

  3. Once a working paper is introduced as a draft resolution, any member may debate the merits and contents of the resolution and propose amendments; if the sponsors introduce or affirm an amendment, it will be immediately adopted, otherwise it will be voted on when the debate on the draft resolution is closed.

    After which a vote is conducted on whether to close debate on the draft, followed by:

  4. Once debate on the draft resolution is closed, all unfriendly amendments are considered and a second reading of the draft is conducted. After this, the members may either adopt the draft or reconsider and move back one step.

  5. Once a resolution is adopted, the topic is closed and debate will move to the next topic. Once all topics are resolved, the League Assembly is considered adjourned until the next topic is introduced.

* I'm half-questioning the enforceability of this rule but it's meant for people to set a topic directly related to Matters of Concern as outlined in the Charter. This also includes enforcement of Member Obligations, Peacekeeping, and amending the Charter.
** Similarly, I'm questioning the point of using this thinking from a perspective that's not used to parliamentary procedure. While it's a valid point to not include this step and move directly into steps 3 and 4, I feel like in a written RP environment having the essential parts of a resolution written, presented, and amended before it's considered ready to be voted on as a full resolution is useful. It might be possible to merge 2 and 3 into the same process but I'm not immediately comfortable with it.

So just so I understand this correctly. In summary, a total of three votes are held until a resolution is passed.
1. Vote: In order to determine if the topic is relevant to be discussed by the league.
2. Vote: In order to accept the proposed resolution
In this time one has to essentially find three supporting nations who are willing to sign or find two nations who are willing to sponsor this.
3. Vote: In order to accept the proposal and make it official

Just for my understanding, why is it necessary to find sponsors or nations who are willing to sign off before it even comes to a vote?

Hey there my friends!

I'd just like to remind you that you still have 2 weeks to submit a text or story about your NS country as part of the Lusitanian Games (remember you can make a submission in english and another in portuguese). This part of the interregional contest we designed with other regions like Europe, 10000 islands and Forest is directed to those who love RP and wish to tell a short but insightful tale (or any other type of text) about the idealized country you've built and its people which you, as their beloved leader, rule.

You also have time to submit photos in our photography contest and a flag as part of the flag design one.

You can read all about it here:

Is the camera rolling? Let's do this then!

Welcome to the First Edition of the Lusitanian Games (or Lusitaníadas in our oh so tongue-twisting Portuguese). In a never-seen-before attempt, Portugal, Europe, Forest and 10000 Islands came together to offer a fun and engaging time for all the NationStates multiverse: a cultural competition! Consisting of three seperate competitions - Writing, Photography and Flag Design - we hope these games may bring forth some peaceful banter and aid in the strengthening of bonds during such turbulent times. Without further ado, let the games begin!


How can I participate?

Regardless of your region, status in the WA, heck as long as you have a pulse you may join any of the three competitions we have in store for you!
But first, please read the rules below (click the images) and, when your project is finished, send it in the appropriate medium via telegram to each competition's judges.


Tournaments


Medals per Region*:

Region

🥇

🥈

🥉

Total

Portugal

3

1

0

4

Forest

1

4

1

6

10000 Islands

1

1

2

4

The Glorious Nations of Iwaku

0

1

0

1

*Photography medals weren't taken into account given only Portuguese nations participated


Anything else?

Portugal Digital wrote:We highly recommend you join Linkour discord server where you can keep up with the latest news on the event!


Read dispatch

We'd really like if there were lots of you participating and hope that you will try and have fun with us!

«12. . .23,47623,47723,47823,47923,48023,48123,482. . .24,38924,390»

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