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International Debating Area RMB

WA Delegate (non-executive): The Rogue Nation of Enlightened Sempiternity (elected )

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Welcome to the International Debating Area! This region is built on debating, and nothing else (kind of...).

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International Debating Area contains 66 nations, the 231st most in the world.

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The Largest Black Market in International Debating Area

World Census agents tracked "off the books" deals and handshake agreements in order to study the size of nations' informal economies.

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NationWA CategoryMotto
1.The Army of StretchingtonIron Fist Consumerists“Death waits in the dark”
2.The Lawful Dominion of LogomachiesFather Knows Best State“The Land Shall Be Built By The Law!”
3.The Democratic Republic of SandovaliaFather Knows Best State“In hoc signo vinces”
4.The Lucky Gold Tooth Rappers of Fresh Prince of Bel-AirInoffensive Centrist Democracy“Now this is a story all about how...”
5.The Nuclear Wasteland of Terok KrebCorporate Police State“Range 15”
6.The New Elven Republic of AkdovInoffensive Centrist Democracy“Imperial Ambassator of Andarios!”
7.The Confederated-Commonwealth of Greater ColumbionInoffensive Centrist Democracy“Praesis ut Prosis, ne ut Imperes”
8.The Dank Meme Repository of The 1337 CR3WCapitalist Paradise“https://youtu.be/MwUvx3p9U94”
9.The Viking Raiders of DarliglandIron Fist Consumerists“Till Valhal”
10.The Colony of BaeOfDrodingerCivil Rights Lovefest“So.... Love Me?”
1234. . .67»

Regional Poll • Which of these two are more real pirates or ninjas?

The Rogue Nation of Enlightened Sempiternity wrote:Something fun you guys, which modern portrayal of these legendary myths is most accurate?

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International Debating Area Regional Message Board

Enlightened Sempiternity wrote:Lol. Well of course they are! I'm just curious as to which you feel was better portrayed today as they once were.
Personally, I feel that as hyped as they were, pirates lived a little more closely to the legends than ninjas, especially when you take into consideration that most of what we see in stories or media concerning Ninjas is simply speculation. The best part of ninjas is how much we really don't know about them and the mystery surrounding them.
And, you know, the turtles ninja thing never really interested me.

Anything in history that inspired a sense of awe has always been placed on a pedestal or surrounded in myths and legend that reach far beyond the truth of the stories. That puts an interesting light on the human need for stories and legends to inspire us.

Look at it this way: If we did know exactly what ninjas were capable of, that means that they weren't doing their job right. Pirates, on the other hand, weren't particularly subtle.

In terms of who would win in a fight, either the ninja would poison the pirate's drink or the pirate would shoot the ninja with his blunderbuss. Ninjas weren't combat-focused, and a ninja who fights in open battle is a dead ninja. But taking that statement and concluding that they weren't very lethal is a (perhaps literally) fatal mistake.

The 1337 CR3W wrote:Look at it this way: If we did know exactly what ninjas were capable of, that means that they weren't doing their job right. Pirates, on the other hand, weren't particularly subtle.

In terms of who would win in a fight, either the ninja would poison the pirate's drink or the pirate would shoot the ninja with his blunderbuss. Ninjas weren't combat-focused, and a ninja who fights in open battle is a dead ninja. But taking that statement and concluding that they weren't very lethal is a (perhaps literally) fatal mistake.

Huh? The way of the ninja was not combat oriented, sure. But they were Samurai, an elite class of highly trained warriors skill honed by intense training, coupled with the skill of a ninja to use any arms and disable enemies in combat. With the exception of turncoats (and even then, they would still have little training), Pirates did not have any sort of special training, and generally gained most of their skills through continued necessity/use.

If a Pirate even had the chance to try and shoot at a Ninja, Ninja would just pull out his gun and shoot him quicker. Yes, Ninja were highly trained in firearms and marksmanship. Most Samurai were with the introduction of firearms in the country. In fact, perhaps the most infamous/famous daimyo to ever live, Oda Nobunaga, was well known for his technique/strategy with firearms.

You can't really compare any Japanese soldiers with any other period appropriate soldier, beacuse they were all the equivalent of commandos. European combat focused more on easily raised troops to swarm enemies with numbers, rather than to have fewer, highly efficient soldiers. Each has its benefits, but on a one to one scale they don't even measure.

BaeOfDrodinger wrote:Huh? The way of the ninja was not combat oriented, sure. But they were Samurai, an elite class of highly trained warriors skill honed by intense training, coupled with the skill of a ninja to use any arms and disable enemies in combat. With the exception of turncoats (and even then, they would still have little training), Pirates did not have any sort of special training, and generally gained most of their skills through continued necessity/use.

If a Pirate even had the chance to try and shoot at a Ninja, Ninja would just pull out his gun and shoot him quicker. Yes, Ninja were highly trained in firearms and marksmanship. Most Samurai were with the introduction of firearms in the country. In fact, perhaps the most infamous/famous daimyo to ever live, Oda Nobunaga, was well known for his technique/strategy with firearms.

You can't really compare any Japanese soldiers with any other period appropriate soldier, beacuse they were all the equivalent of commandos. European combat focused more on easily raised troops to swarm enemies with numbers, rather than to have fewer, highly efficient soldiers. Each has its benefits, but on a one to one scale they don't even measure.

Idk man, quick googling says ninjas were mercenaries. Which negates a some of your post. Samurai were all about Bushido, & ninja, it says, were all about the money. & the guy you mentioned seems a lot more like Samurai than ninja. He was respectful & owned land it seems.

BaeOfDrodinger wrote:Huh? The way of the ninja was not combat oriented, sure. But they were Samurai, an elite class of highly trained warriors skill honed by intense training, coupled with the skill of a ninja to use any arms and disable enemies in combat. With the exception of turncoats (and even then, they would still have little training), Pirates did not have any sort of special training, and generally gained most of their skills through continued necessity/use.

Samurai and ninjas were not the same thing. Some samurai became ninjas, but saying that all ninjas were samurai, or even that the average ninja had anywhere near the same level of skill, is ridiculous.

Anyway, back to the point, a fight between a pirate and a samurai would be ridiculously one-sided. Samurai charges pirate. Pirate shoots samurai in the face. GG.

BaeOfDrodinger wrote:If a Pirate even had the chance to try and shoot at a Ninja, Ninja would just pull out his gun and shoot him quicker. Yes, Ninja were highly trained in firearms and marksmanship. Most Samurai were with the introduction of firearms in the country. In fact, perhaps the most infamous/famous daimyo to ever live, Oda Nobunaga, was well known for his technique/strategy with firearms.

I was referring specifically to medieval ninjas, in much the same way that we were talking about Black Sails-style pirates instead of Somalian pirates. Ninjas were trained in marksmanship, yes, but their weapons of choice were shuriken and other darts, and barring an exceptionally lethal poison on the ninja's weapon, the pirate would have enough time to kill the unarmored ninja before his body figures out that he should be dead.

BaeOfDrodinger wrote:You can't really compare any Japanese soldiers with any other period appropriate soldier, beacuse they were all the equivalent of commandos. European combat focused more on easily raised troops to swarm enemies with numbers, rather than to have fewer, highly efficient soldiers. Each has its benefits, but on a one to one scale they don't even measure.

Well, we can, by simply comparing the elite troops to other elite troops (Japanese Samurai vs. Ottoman Janissaries, for example) or the... less-than-elite troops against the other less-than-elite troops (average Japanese foot soldiers vs. fairly well equipped European infantry, the Japanese making up for their inferior gear with superior training). But this ignores a key point about this battle: Neither ninjas nor pirates were 'soldiers' in the normal sense of the word. Pirates were warriors and marines, more easily compared to Viking berserkers than your standard boots-on-the-ground grunt, and ninjas were more about stealth than fighting. Don't get me wrong, they weren't bad at fighting, it's just that -- to use an analogy I've been wanting to use for a while -- this is like comparing the rogue to the fighter. In a straight-up duel, all other things being equal, the fighter will win every time, but the rogue, unlike the fighter, can kill his opponent before the first blade is drawn.

I TOLD YOU YOU NEEDED A DEFENCE MINISTER

Ninjas were irregular soldiers, would specialised in irregular warfare such as espionage, spying, assassinations etc.

WifiKnight wrote:Ninjas were irregular soldiers, would specialised in irregular warfare such as espionage, spying, assassinations etc.

Yeah, but were pirates or ninja more like how media portrays them?

WifiKnight wrote:I TOLD YOU YOU NEEDED A DEFENCE MINISTER

Huh?

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Enlightened Sempiternity wrote:Yeah, but were pirates or ninja more like how media portrays them?

Pirates are vaguely similar to their fictionalized portrayals, in that there were some pirates that behaved like those portrayals (rum-swilling freedom-loving mariners who wreck trade routes for fun and profit). Ninjas were stealthy assassins/spies, trained to hide in plain sight more than they were to hide in the shadows, and far more likely to kill an enemy by poisoning their wine than they were by stabbing them repeatedly with a katana or flinging a (poisoned) throwing star in their face.
They also weren't the masters of martial arts that they are seen as. They had some of that, but that was expected of nobility, and they had to blend in with the nobility (and maybe be able to hold their own against a surprise honor duel from a samurai, though if that happened, they'd probably lose anyway). Lots of their mystique and attraction came from the fact that no one really knows what they were actually capable of, and it's highly likely that people attributed things to ninjas that were not only not things ninjas could do, but were actually impossible (such as walking on water, climbing three hundred foot walls with no tools, dodging bullets and catching anything slower, being able to outmatch entire platoons of soldiers through force of arms), and since no one knew what ninjas were actually capable of, no one could ever truly disprove that this was because of ninjas.

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