by Max Barry

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Atrides wrote:If the Palestinians stop electing Hamas for government, the Israelis will not have arguments to remove more Palestinians from lands.

Right so engaging in democracy gives others the right to steal your house?

Atrides wrote:
If you had so much enemies and nobody trustable as ally nearby what would you do?

With British help foreigners barge into your land, create their own entity and start evicting your people from their homes. What would you do?
The Israelis had terrorists as viscious as Hamas while they were creating their entity.

Oh it's my turn now.

Israel's legitimacy is not a question, though condemnation of their 'progressive' choices is certainly justified.

1 Kings 14:24
And there were also sodomites in the land: and they did according to all the abominations of the nations which the LORD cast out before the children of Israel.
[KJV, bold emphasis mine]

The Glorious Third Reign of Templedom wrote:Oh it's my turn now.

Israel's legitimacy is not a question, though condemnation of their 'progressive' choices is certainly justified.

1 Kings 14:24
And there were also sodomites in the land: and they did according to all the abominations of the nations which the LORD cast out before the children of Israel.
[KJV, bold emphasis mine]

Israel exists its called the Catholic Church not some fake state in Palestine.

Domina Nostra Nova Terra wrote:Israel exists its called the Catholic Church not some fake state in Palestine.

ISIS was a fake state, Israel is here to stay.

Actually, based on reading Scripture there should be three "Israel"s: the earthly (nation-state), the spiritual (heirs of salvation), and the one in heaven (where Jesus reigns).

The earthly Israel will be the one invaded by the Kings of the East, and the war will last until the Messiah's coming.

Domina Nostra Nova Terra wrote:I can make plenty of arguments about how bad the modern state of israel is but I think its completely false to compare them to the Old Testament kingdom.

I can make plenty of arguments about how horribly mediocre the modern state of Israel is, but still a hell of a lot better than anything else in the region. Again, the notion that you can compare them to "the Old Testament kingdom" is an illogical argument; God's promise was to a people and not to a nation state. Given that the alternate to the nation are nations dominated by the followers of the anti-Christ; a religion that when in the majority actively enslaves and eliminates all other religions, the nation state of Israel is the only currently viable nation state that would allow the children of Israel to live in the land promised to them by God whose words never fades away.

P.S. Caesar generally is flawed; if you want perfect government wait until the second coming but by then we will no longer need any.

The Catholic State of Eire wrote:So meanwhile when all this flag waving for Israel is happening in the U.S., which has increased during Trumps Presidency, about how 'tolerate' and 'democratic' they are, they continue to colonise more land off the Palestinians and completely disregard the two state solution, which Netanyahu is more than happy to do. They also seem to have no problem carpet bombing Gaza, killing thousands of people in the name of their "national security".

First of all, support for Israel declined during the Obama presidency who was trying to appease Iran. The two state solution has been repeatedly been rejected by the Palestinians. No state allows the existence of a state dedicated to the eradication of not only the state but the people of that state. Anytime the Palestinians have gotten aid they use it to promote the extermination of the Jewish people in the region; which they fervently pray for. It is the terrorists who hide behind human shields. It is the terrorists who brainwash innocents into weapons of destruction. It is the terrorists who launch missiles constantly into population centers. How many Palestinians have to spend most of their lives in bomb shelters?

Frustrated Franciscans wrote:First of all, support for Israel declined during the Obama presidency who was trying to appease Iran. The two state solution has been repeatedly been rejected by the Palestinians. No state allows the existence of a state dedicated to the eradication of not only the state but the people of that state. Anytime the Palestinians have gotten aid they use it to promote the extermination of the Jewish people in the region; which they fervently pray for. It is the terrorists who hide behind human shields. It is the terrorists who brainwash innocents into weapons of destruction. It is the terrorists who launch missiles constantly into population centers. How many Palestinians have to spend most of their lives in bomb shelters?

Despite what you say, the Obama administration, while having issues with Israel in attempting to reach a peace settlement, was still heavy pro-Israel. You can see this by the fact how Obama approved the sale of bunker busting bombs, vetoed a UN resolution declaring Israeli settlements in the West Bank illegal, settlements which are in stolen Palestinian land and also threatened to veto any UN resolution recognising Palestinian statehood.

Now we have Trump who has went further than any other President and has inflamed tensions by regonising Jerusalem as the capital of Israel, putting an embassy there and has recognised Israel as owner of the Golan Heights, which no other country does. With Trump you have also embolden Netanyahu who now wants to abolish any restrictions on settlments in the West Bank. With Trump you have only made the right winged in Israel more confident that no matter what they do in Palestine they can't be touched by anyone else, even though the majority of the world recognise Palestine as a sovereign state. Netanyahu has shown time and time again he will not respect the two state solution and he has done everything to get rid of it because he never has been in favour of it.

The Israelis will continue to steal land in the West Bank and keep Gaza as an open air prison, keeping the jackboot of the US funded Israeli Armed Forces on the neck of the Palestinian peoples throat. Yet you wonder why the Palestinians continue to fight despite all of that. They are not simply going to allow their nation to be colonised by a foreign country, they'll use any force possible to fight back because they have been left no choice, they don't have a foreign superpower giving them billions of dollars of equipment to fend off a country that has invaded them and killed thousands of their people.

God keeps his promises but Israel isn't a certain ethnic group anymore. We are all Israel.

Christ said this in Matthew 21:43 that the Kingdom would be taken away.

That and there is no longer Jew or Greek. Israel is all in the Church there is no Israel outside of it and those that claim to be it reject Christ.

You're slipping into dual covenant theology.

The Glorious Third Reign of Templedom wrote:ISIS was a fake state, Israel is here to stay.

Actually, based on reading Scripture there should be three "Israel"s: the earthly (nation-state), the spiritual (heirs of salvation), and the one in heaven (where Jesus reigns).

The earthly Israel will be the one invaded by the Kings of the East, and the war will last until the Messiah's coming.

That is protestant nonsense.

The Messiah has already come and the earthly "Israel" rejects him.

Lmao "Jews" aren't God's chosen people. Christians are God's chosen people. The group that the Bible refers to as Jews were actually Talmudists, a tribe of Israel that was diametrically opposed to the Judeans, the tribe of Israel that Jesus belonged to.

Catholics didn't descend from the modern Jews of today that adhere to the Talmud. We come from the Judeans.

So this nonsense about the modern day state of Israel being the "third kingdom" prophesied in Scripture isn't just theological BS; it's globalist ideology.

Well I had no idea there was such a thing "Dual covenant theory" - never have I said Jews will receive eternal life, even Judaism itself makes no such claims; but if Israel were simply converted Jews and Gentiles who took upon the new identity of "Christian", then none of the end-of-days prophecy make sense. Where is Jerusalem? Where is the river that will dry up to open the way for the eastern armies? The prophecy speaks clearly of war and plague, to treat Revelation as pure metaphor is wrong. And it has obviously not been fulfilled since the Big Earthquake, swarm from the abyss, dried seas, etc. have not yet happened.

Novo Vaticanus wrote:The group that the Bible refers to as Jews were actually Talmudists [...]

So this nonsense about the modern day state of Israel being the "third kingdom" prophesied in Scripture isn't just theological BS; it's globalist ideology.

They were and still are Pharisees, actually. It's well understood that the Jewish Messiah is likely the Antichrist.

I think it's possible to maintain that the Jews in particular are God's chosen people while also maintaining that all are saved through Jesus Christ. In fact, I have difficulty seeing how you can deny either and remain consistent with Scripture and Catholic doctrine.

The Catholic State of Eire wrote:You're slipping into dual covenant theology.

No I'm not because you are confusing two separate ideas. I'm specifically referring to the relationship between God (specifically the Father) and his relationship to the children of Israel, who name literally means one who questions God. This is not "replaced" by the relationship between the Son and the Church. One is through blood; the other is through water and spirit. These relationships do not change, even if they are not complete and perfect.

This has nothing to do with being "saved" or not. Remember the words of Jesus spoken to the religious community that considered themselves "saved" because they were "chosen" apply equally as well to those in the Church today. There are many who will call "Lord Lord" and be condemned, because they simply assumed their position based on "membership." And there will be many who we would not expect to be there who will be there because precisely of the blood of Jesus Christ. As the Catechism points out (going from memory here) "God has bound salvation to the sacraments but God is not bound by the sacraments." All those who are saved are saved thought Jesus Christ.

The Catholic State of Eire wrote:You're slipping into dual covenant theology.

I didn't write that, it was Domina Nostra Nova Terra who wrote that!

Frustrated Franciscans wrote: Anytime the Palestinians have gotten aid they use it to promote the extermination of the Jewish people in the region; which they fervently pray for.

That's a bit mad.

Auralia wrote:I think it's possible to maintain that the Jews in particular are God's chosen people while also maintaining that all are saved through Jesus Christ. In fact, I have difficulty seeing how you can deny either and remain consistent with Scripture and Catholic doctrine.

They have that heritage alright. The anti Israeli Jews insist those who value that heritage should reject the Israeli state.

Oire wrote:Right so engaging in democracy gives others the right to steal your house?

No, but what is done is done, this is now something that can't be reverted, if we go with this pattern USA citizens would need to move to other places because their democratic experiment stole land from indigenous people.

With British help foreigners barge into your land, create their own entity and start evicting your people from their homes. What would you do?
The Israelis had terrorists as viscious as Hamas while they were creating their entity.

On that era I don't know what I would do, but today the status is, we have 2 established countries, Israel and Palestine, one have reasonable politicians that want peace and prosperity for both countries but lose the elections to pro-war politicians, and the other elected terrorist movement Hamas that de facto control the Palestinian people.

The Israelis had terrorists before, their enemies still having it today, and one of them control Gaza, despite the mistakes Israel made and make it is still the most reasonable player on the table, the Israelis elect warmongers because they deal with warmonger terrorists every single day, if Palestine recognize Israel, forget about the past and put reasonable leaders instead of terrorist movements, Israeli people would begun to elect reasonable leaders and peace between both will be possible, Palestine will not have their lost homes back but they will have a far better home on their territories with trade agreements and not spending their richness and own people trying to put Israel out of the map.

The United States should remain a firm ally of Israel.

Hey everyone, I've been thinking about Israel (its biblical nature), and I propose a possible solution which is non-canonical but not un-scriptural: that there is a "spiritual apocalypse" for the "spiritual Israel" (the Church) and a "worldly apocalypse" for the "worldly Israel" (the country).

Because it is written: "An eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth". The eye is a soft organ denoting sight/perspective, so the spiritual tribulation comes in a soft form - an ideological war / a doctrinal war. Whereas the tooth is a hard organ, denoting biting/chewing, so the worldly tribulation comes as a hot war / physical invasion.

The river that dries up also comes in two forms: the spiritual river (Gospel) being cut-off from it's source (Jesus Christ), repudiating it's own teachings and changing into strange doctrine, opening the way for pagan beliefs. The worldly river (most likely Jordan Euphrates: Rev. 16:12) dries up due to drought/irrigation/damming, depriving Israel's eastern border of its natural barrier, easing the prophesized invasion.

Iraqi Archbishop: ‘Extinction Is Coming’ for Christians in Middle East (https://www.breitbart.com/middle-east/2019/08/08/iraqi-archbishop-extinction-is-coming-for-christians-in-middle-east/) "Chaldean Archbishop Bashar Warda of Erbil offered a grim prediction for the future of Christianity in the Middle East, saying recurring Islamic purges will inevitably lead to the extinction of Christians."

But go ahead and keep telling me how Israel is the enemy.

Israel has a very ambiguous attitude t'wards the jihadi groups to say the least.
All the s*** that has been stirred up over the recent decades has been London and Washington driven. And they know what they are doing.
A safe place in the mid east for Christians has been Assadist Syria. All the above desperately want it destroyed.

Correction: the river that dries up is the Euphrates (Rev. 16:12). Error was due to memory lapse. Edited previous post.

Pray for Matteo Salvini and the Lega so they can take full control over Italy in the upcoming re-elections (God willing) and once again turn Italy into a Catholic nation!

Oire wrote:A safe place in the mid east for Christians has been Assadist Syria. All the above desperately want it destroyed.

Rolling on the floor laughing my "shelf" off. https://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/the-anti-christian-genocide-the-west-forgot/ "For Syriac Christians still living in Syria, recognition and survival go hand-in-hand. In the village of Shalhoumiyah, three kilometers from the Turkish border, the four remaining families started building a new church last year after the old church, built in 1932, began collapsing. They must expect someone to still be in the village in 2123 when they mark 104 years after the defeat of ISIS, just as they now mark 104 after their genocide at the hands of the Ottoman Empire."

Oh hey the youtube link I posted a few days ago was plagiarised (as it turns out, the soundtrack's creator stands to lose a lot of money). Here's the same track posted by the original composer:

https://youtu.be/rVTzv9qLyko (2m 31s)

Jerusalem should be under Christian rule. End of. Neither Israel nor Palestine deserve our support.

St Michael and St George wrote:Jerusalem should be under Christian rule. End of. Neither Israel nor Palestine deserve our support.

While I agree with the sentiment wholeheartedly, I think it's a little beside the point. The Vatican will likely never control Jerusalem again.

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