Post

Bombadil wrote:

Speaking of George R.R. Martin.. I was watching a video where he said the biggest issue he had with LOTR was Gandalf coming back. His point was that the death of Gandalf was a massive moment where a key character surprisingly dies and this is somewhat nullified by just bringing him back, and the tension of 'oh man.. how will they deal without the person who has a lot of the answers?' So.. for a NY topic..

1. Should Gandalf have remained dead
2. If so how would things have panned out?

Happy New Year all

The video for reference: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3mPkqEqx3Gg

I am unsure if that can be considered as a deus ex machina moment, although that can be up for debate as well.

In the movies it was definitely portrayed in a more cheesy (and really visually confusing) way that I didn't particularly like, but the movies had to fit the storyline in a number of minutes limit so I was lenient with that.

As for the book, if you had prior knowledge of other works (like The Silmarillion) you would have known that Gandalf was Maia / Istari but on my first LOTR book read the backstory of Gandalf definitely felt a bit confusing. I also found the story of the fight between Gandalf and the Balrog quite convoluted and a bit too cheesy (in contrast with the rest of the same book but definitely not with other works, ie. .. to fall in some bottomless pit then end up in a lake then fight in the lake until they reach the Endless Stairs and then end up climbing the stairs while fighting then reaching the mountain peaks again to end up fighting for a whole week -or more- with no-one else noticing it).

And the possible deus ex machina moment was that, after all that immense fight and the death of Gandalf, Eru's direct intervention ressurrects him. I believe that this was not the first "direct intervention" in the works, but definitely it was the first in the LOTR books (one other was later in the series, with Frodo and the One Ring). But it was definitely earned, since Gandalf proved himself (obvious in the book) and he also was a higher being (less obvious in the book) so he wouldn't just .. die - so I do not see it a cheap trick by the author but rather as a reward for his many contributions - in a world in which such is still in the realm of possibilities.

Anyway I diverge from the topic. Personally, I find that the rest of the party definitely could not have won the fight against the Balrog if it wasn't for Gandalf. So even if the bridge wouldn't have collapsed (or they weren't fighting in that area), I believe that Gandalf would have realised the gravity of the situation and would have ordered the rest of the party to carry on.

Unfortunately, now, the rest of the story diverges from the original, since Gandalf is involved in other areas of Middle Earth after his death. If he was to be dead then there are still some issues with the kingdom of Rohan, the fight at Minas Tirith but, other than the last stand at the battle of Morannon in front of Mount Doom - the other battles didn't really influence or aid Frodo's little quest.