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«12. . .2,0842,0852,0862,0872,0882,0892,090. . .2,7842,785»

<3 Ronnie

South titania, Goddess Relief Office, Bilge rat ronnie, SteamPunkFishToo, and 6 othersAnon Zytose, Skothafjordur, Wan Nyan, Konashen, Ramsea, and Dardona

I'm sorry to hear that ST, please take care of yourself and know that you have friends here who share your grief.
;__;

South titania, SteamPunkFishToo, Anon Zytose, Wan Nyan, and 3 othersRamsea, Dardona, and Prunasia

<3 ST

South titania, Goddess Relief Office, SteamPunkFishToo, Anon Zytose, and 6 othersSkothafjordur, Wan Nyan, Konashen, Ramsea, Dardona, and Prunasia

Whenever I feel especially down, this song cheers me up.

Here you go Ronnie and ST: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c-3vPxKdj6o

My condolences go to both of you...I have an idea of what it's like to lose someone close to you.

South titania, Bilge rat ronnie, Anon Zytose, Wan Nyan, and 3 othersRamsea, Dardona, and Prunasia

Palos heights

Forest

Bilge rat ronnie wrote:Sorry about that - it's been a rough couple weeks. My nephew passed away.

I am so sorry for your loss. I will make sure to keep you and your family in my prayers.

EDIT:
ST same to you as well. Apologies for missing your post.

South titania, Bilge rat ronnie, and Anon Zytose

Miriliarith wrote:Internet lines are cut all I can do is rely on school internet...memes
Ok back to the topic and debate

What? You were claiming they were becoming fascist earlier and now authoritarian........in truth they are not. They still hold democracy

I'm not denying that every nation should have the right to be independent and free but look it from the side of the nation who is losing that land for a free nation.....they are obviously don't want to lose a piece of their economy and infrastructure so it would make sense to object to their freedom. But to call them fascism and authoritarian over that is something......overboard?

No it isn't "overboard" Reliance on the military and police to silence opposition, suppression of freedoms, authoritarian govt, as well as support for nationalism is Fascism. That seems like how Sapin and Rajoy are acting like now. Catalonia has the right to self determination and freedom as an independent state.

Canadian Davsland wrote:No it isn't "overboard" Reliance on the military and police to silence opposition, suppression of freedoms, authoritarian govt, as well as support for nationalism is Fascism. That seems like how Sapin and Rajoy are acting like now. Catalonia has the right to self determination and freedom as an independent state.

Spain's charter thingy states that any part of Spain can leave whenever they want...

Canadian Davsland wrote:No it isn't "overboard"

I think Miri is stating that your reaction to how Spain is handling Catalonia is leaning towards an overreaction.

Canadian Davsland wrote:Reliance on the military and police to silence opposition

Most countries do tend to use the military and police to keep order, yes. Whether they are used to silence genuine opposition is another matter.

Think of it this way. If protesters at, say, Berkeley weren't kept in check by the police, what's stopping them from disrupting and silencing people like Ben Shapiro who they view as opponents? Remember that silence and censorship goes both ways.

Canadian Davsland wrote:suppression of freedoms

Source?

Canadian Davsland wrote:authoritarian govt

https://www.quora.com/Is-Spain-an-authoritarian-country-as-Guardiola-asserts

Canadian Davsland wrote:as well as support for nationalism is Fascism.

Fascism uses nationalism in its ideology, but nationalism doesn't use fascism in its basic concept.

Just because I stand for the national anthem and salute the war vets doesn't mean that I am a fascist, nor does it mean that I am a blindly loyal patriot who does anything its leadership says. Nationalism itself is a good thing, it's more of how far you take it that nationalism then becomes a hairy business.

Canadian Davsland wrote:That seems like how Sapin and Rajoy are acting like now.

Of course. They don't want to lose a rather significant part of Spain and with it all of its taxpayers, resources, etc. Protesters have a right to make their opinion known, but the state also has a right to make sure that said protesters make their opinions known in an orderly and non-anarchic fashion.

Canadian Davsland wrote:Catalonia has the right to self determination and freedom as an independent state.

So did the Confederate States of America, but that doesn't mean that they did so lawfully. In Catalonia, the referendum used to gauge Catalan interest in independence was declared illegal by Spain's constitutional court, yet they did it anyway. I'd rather folks talk it out instead of outright defiance. That leads to no good results and leaves nothing but misery for everyone.

SteamPunkFishToo wrote:Spain's charter thingy states that any part of Spain can leave whenever they want...

I'm having trouble finding that. Could you share with us this charter, please?

Carrasastova wrote:

I think Miri is stating that your reaction to how Spain is handling Catalonia is leaning towards an overreaction.

Most countries do tend to use the military and police to keep order, yes. Whether they are used to silence genuine opposition is another matter.

Think of it this way. If protesters at, say, Berkeley weren't kept in check by the police, what's stopping them from disrupting and silencing people like Ben Shapiro who they view as opponents? Remember that silence and censorship goes both ways.

Source?

https://www.quora.com/Is-Spain-an-authoritarian-country-as-Guardiola-asserts

Fascism uses nationalism in its ideology, but nationalism doesn't use fascism in its basic concept.

Just because I stand for the national anthem and salute the war vets doesn't mean that I am a fascist, nor does it mean that I am a blindly loyal patriot who does anything its leadership says. Nationalism itself is a good thing, it's more of how far you take it that nationalism then becomes a hairy business.

Of course. They don't want to lose a rather significant part of Spain and with it all of its taxpayers, resources, etc. Protesters have a right to make their opinion known, but the state also has a right to make sure that said protesters make their opinions known in an orderly and non-anarchic fashion.

So did the Confederate States of America, but that doesn't mean that they did so lawfully. In Catalonia, the referendum used to gauge Catalan interest in independence was declared illegal by Spain's constitutional court, yet they did it anyway. I'd rather folks talk it out instead of outright defiance. That leads to no good results and leaves nothing but misery for everyone.

I'm having trouble finding that. Could you share with us this charter, please?

https://youtu.be/sjoHOSFBgt8
Basically. Spain is not a federation of states like the U.S. or Canada, and has a bunch of semiautonomous states inside of it, like a federation; however, these states have more power then a state in a federal nation.

https://youtu.be/sjoHOSFBgt8?t=131
If you want to hear the part that says they can leave without the background information... It's mainly due to the government type.

Spain be weird man...

Carrasastova

SteamPunkFishToo wrote:Spain's charter thingy states that any part of Spain can leave whenever they want...

Catalonia, Basque Country, Valencia, and Galicia should be independent and free.

Canadian Davsland wrote:Catalonia, Basque Country, Valencia, and Galicia should be independent and free.

Some of them have more power then the Federal state in their own autonomous states... As the video states, they only should be freed if they have a legal vote for their respective regions.

SteamPunkFishToo wrote:Some of them have more power then the Federal state in their own autonomous states... As the video states, they only should be freed if they have a legal vote for their respective regions.

Yes hence they have autonomous powers over a lot of their own affairs. Spain has no right to withhold their desire to be independent.

Miriliarith

Canadian Davsland wrote:No it isn't "overboard" Reliance on the military and police to silence opposition, suppression of freedoms, authoritarian govt, as well as support for nationalism is Fascism. That seems like how Sapin and Rajoy are acting like now. Catalonia has the right to self determination and freedom as an independent state.

Fairly sure it is to call them fascist, Almost every nation relies on the military and police to keep the peace and order,give me one fairly decent large nation that is the size of Spain that does not have a police to watch over the people, police and the military is required for the safety and freedom of the people. You say as if the police and military are mere tools towards dictatorship (which it can but almost not all the time) however whenever i read articles concerning about the issue I can't find anything about them suppression the freedoms of Catalonia and they are there to root out the illegal referendum, the government is not authoritarian they still hold democratic elections, the support of nationalism is not fascism if that were the case then consider everyone who loves their country a fascist. And as I will say again Catalonia does have the right so does every nation however it needs to be done in the country's constitution where they are trying to gain independence from.

So Spain is still Democratic

Carrasastova

Seconds ago: Following new legislation in Thembria SSR, speaking out against the government is punishable by flogging.

Am I doing fascism right?

Carrasastova, SteamPunkFishToo, Piloria, Konashen, and 1 otherPrunasia

Miriliarith wrote:Fairly sure it is to call them fascist, Almost every nation relies on the military and police to keep the peace and order,give me one fairly decent large nation that is the size of Spain that does not have a police to watch over the people, police and the military is required for the safety and freedom of the people. You say as if the police and military are mere tools towards dictatorship (which it can but almost not all the time) however whenever i read articles concerning about the issue I can't find anything about them suppression the freedoms of Catalonia and they are there to root out the illegal referendum, the government is not authoritarian they still hold democratic elections, the support of nationalism is not fascism if that were the case then consider everyone who loves their country a fascist. And as I will say again Catalonia does have the right so does every nation however it needs to be done in the country's constitution where they are trying to gain independence from.

So Spain is still Democratic

Using the military to intimidate and potentially invade Catalonia, using police to confiscate pro referendum material, make illegal arrests and threatening mayors is NOT democratic. Spain is turning back into the Franco Authoritarian fascist dictatorship.

Thembria SSR wrote:Seconds ago: Following new legislation in Thembria SSR, speaking out against the government is punishable by flogging.

Am I doing fascism right?

I gathered up a bunch of sticks today while cleaning the yard. That means I'm doing the fascism, right?

Carrasastova, SteamPunkFishToo, Piloria, and Prunasia

Canadian Davsland wrote:Using the military to intimidate and potentially invade Catalonia, using police to confiscate pro referendum material, make illegal arrests and threatening mayors is NOT democratic. Spain is turning back into the Franco Authoritarian fascist dictatorship.

*this is feeling like a full circle*

The military is there to root out the illegal referendum, not there to intimidate the people, not there to suppress the freedoms but to make sure the Catalonian government is not there to outright defy the Spanish consitution's order which is not to hold the referendum

They are not potentially invading Catalonia since it is part of Spain already

That Pro referdum material or well I'm assuming your speaking of ballots and voting machines and such are illegal (due to the court's orders) so they are going to be confiscated.

Threatening and arresting mayors who are defying a direct order of the Spanish constitution sincerely they are the ones planing the referendum......I wonder who stepped out of their line first (unless I'm wrong)

These all make sense on what is currently happening so Spain is still democratic. They are not turning back into fascism

South titania, Goddess Relief Office, Carrasastova, and SteamPunkFishToo

NeoPacificus wrote:I gathered up a bunch of sticks today while cleaning the yard. That means I'm doing the fascism, right?

oh! did you tie an ax to the bundle to make it fasces? If you lack an ax you could use a butter knife or something..

Carrasastova, SteamPunkFishToo, Incantata phantasia, and Prunasia

Thembria SSR wrote:oh! did you tie an ax to the bundle to make it fasces? If you lack an ax you could use a butter knife or something..

I have a hammer, a sickle, a torch, a balance scale, an axe and a bunch of sticks.

Am I a centrist?

Prunasia wrote:I have a hammer, a sickle, a torch, a balance scale, an axe and a bunch of sticks.

Am I a centrist?

Hammer and sickle.. communist.. ax and sticks fascist..

Balance scales makes them cancel out.. but the torch.. you are fire! Fire that brings change! Only with the other two canceled out we don't know the change you bring.

Prunasia

Prunasia wrote:I have a hammer, a sickle, a torch, a balance scale, an axe and a bunch of sticks.

Am I a centrist?

You have an ideology harem!

Thembria SSR wrote: If you lack an ax you could use a butter knife or something..

For when you want to promote your ideology but want to stay on budget.

Carrasastova, Dardona, and Prunasia

Prunasia wrote:I have a hammer, a sickle, a torch, a balance scale, an axe and a bunch of sticks.

Am I a centrist?

That makes you a Nazi... >.>

SteamPunkFishToo wrote:That makes you a Nazi... >.>

http://www.npr.org/sections/parallels/2017/09/22/552362370/far-right-german-party-could-lead-opposition-after-sundays-election

"For the first time in the history of the Federal Republic of Germany, there will be a political party within the walls of the Reichstag [Parliament] building which does not distance itself from the Nazi past and which tolerates members who publicly express themselves in racist and xenophobic language." says Michael Fuchs, a Christian Democrat Bundestag member since 2002.

---
The state of affairs in the world is worrying.

In Japan, the Prime Minister Abe is a right-wing politician whose lifelong dream is to replace Japan's peace constitution and remilitarise Japan. He has not succeeded as of yet, but he's getting there.

In India, current Prime Minister Modi comes from the BJP, which adheres to the idea of 'hindutva' (Hindu nationalism) and dreams of establishing a Greater India. Since his election, there's been increased oppression of minorities, especially Muslims. His aversion to Islam can be observed in his recent trip to Israel, where he did not simultaneously visit the Palestine territories. This broke a tradition of Indian PMs who always visited both when visiting one of them. Another observation: Modi's government rejected accepting the Rohingya refugees, despite traditionally having done so.

In Australia, the balance of power in Parliament is held by One Nation, anti-gay, anti-immigrant and anti-Muslim party led by a racist. Prime Minister Turnbull has consequently moved further to the right.

In New Zealand, it looks like the balance of power will be held by NZ First, a xenophobic, openly anti-Chinese immigrant party. Election results are still pending, but it's clear whichever party that forms the government will need help from the far right party.

In Britain, we have UKIP and Brexit. The message of Brexit was primarily about rejecting multiculturalism and returning to the 'good old' days of Empire.

And we already know about Trump in the US, who recently threatened to totally destroy (yes, he said TOTALLY) North Korea. Not just the government of North Korea, but North Korea itself. The supreme irony was he did so in the UN, which was formed in the aftermath of WWII to prevent anything similar from happening again.

SteamPunkFishToo, Piloria, and Prunasia

Incantata phantasia

Goddess Relief Office wrote:http://www.npr.org/sections/parallels/2017/09/22/552362370/far-right-german-party-could-lead-opposition-after-sundays-election

"For the first time in the history of the Federal Republic of Germany, there will be a political party within the walls of the Reichstag [Parliament] building which does not distance itself from the Nazi past and which tolerates members who publicly express themselves in racist and xenophobic language." says Michael Fuchs, a Christian Democrat Bundestag member since 2002.

---
The state of affairs in the world is worrying.

In Japan, the Prime Minister Abe is a right-wing politician whose lifelong dream is to replace Japan's peace constitution and remilitarise Japan. He has not succeeded as of yet, but he's getting there.

In India, current Prime Minister Modi comes from the BJP, which adheres to the idea of 'hindutva' (Hindu nationalism) and dreams of establishing a Greater India. Since his election, there's been increased oppression of minorities, especially Muslims. His aversion to Islam can be observed in his recent trip to Israel, where he did not simultaneously visit the Palestine territories. This broke a tradition of Indian PMs who always visited both when visiting one of them. Another observation: Modi's government rejected accepting the Rohingya refugees, despite traditionally having done so.

In Australia, the balance of power in Parliament is held by One Nation, anti-gay, anti-immigrant and anti-Muslim party led by a racist. Prime Minister Turnbull has consequently moved further to the right.

In New Zealand, it looks like the balance of power will be held by NZ First, a xenophobic, openly anti-Chinese immigrant party. Election results are still pending, but it's clear whichever party that forms the government will need help from the far right party.

In Britain, we have UKIP and Brexit. The message of Brexit was primarily about rejecting multiculturalism and returning to the 'good old' days of Empire.

And we already know about Trump in the US, who recently threatened to totally destroy (yes, he said TOTALLY) North Korea. Not just the government of North Korea, but North Korea itself. The supreme irony was he did so in the UN, which was formed in the aftermath of WWII to prevent anything similar from happening again.

On the good side: Angela Merkel still is predicted to win against the far-right and continue to be Chancellor, Austria elected both President and Chancellor against the anti-immigration opposition, Scotland and the parts of England with more immigrants voted against Brexit, China is leading the search of alternatives against global warming, FARC is forsaking their weapons, Marine Le Pen lost against a newcomer politician when all the momentum was in favor of her (the brexit, the terrorist attacks and election of Trump), Pope Francis is pushing for a more loving church, Iran reelected a moderate president in a landslide, and even the Republicans are making opposition to Trump's insanities.

Be optimist!

Carrasastova, SteamPunkFishToo, Piloria, and Prunasia

Goddess Relief Office wrote:

And we already know about Trump in the US, who recently threatened to totally destroy (yes, he said TOTALLY) North Korea. Not just the government of North Korea, but North Korea itself. The supreme irony was he did so in the UN, which was formed in the aftermath of WWII to prevent anything similar from happening again.

Speaking of America, the future of Internet neutrality is still very much up for debate over here, despite that being an absolutely ludicrous question that should never be uttered under any circumstance.

They've already let ISPs sell our information without our permission, a full blown repeal of Internet neutrality is not on the table.

The world is slowly being overran by a bunch of morons and their corporate overlords who like to use them as useful idiots. smh

«12. . .2,0842,0852,0862,0872,0882,0892,090. . .2,7842,785»

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