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Colin advance wars wrote:Ironic that a nation with red in it's name is teaching the wonders of capitalism.

Red is a big Milton Friedman fan.

The red society and Colin advance wars

The red society

My employment is only 60% and my nation is still alive. How is this possible?

Colin advance wars and Land of moeney

The red society

The Earldom of Fallsbury Your employment is only 33%!!! Your nation will become anarchy!!! AAAAHH!!! But we're in NationStates so everything is possible. XD

Colin advance wars

The Earldom of Fallsbury wrote:Red is a big Milton Friedman fan.

Wat is that supposed to be.

This region equivalent of Gordon Freeman?

The red society

Colin advance wars wrote:Wat is that supposed to be.

This region equivalent of Gordon Freeman?

Milton Friedman is a very good economist that died in 2006.

Colin advance wars

The red society wrote:Milton Friedman is a very good economist that died in 2006.

I searched it in google minutes ago.

lol, thanks anyway.

The red society

Sweet. I kicked my NS country's arms industry into action in statistics. It soared by 3953%!!! Militarism pays off. The statistics would be inaccurate however would be inaccurate as it'd have a large arms expenditure and size in RP terms due to a consistent interventionist militarism policy replacing isolationism in the 1930's.

The red society

The red society wrote:The Earldom of Fallsbury Your employment is only 33%!!! Your nation will become anarchy!!! AAAAHH!!! But we're in NationStates so everything is possible. XD

We have universal basic income and and all services are free. There is no need for everyone to work and that's simply impractical in the modern age. Free to engage in intellectual and artistic pursuits, and personal betterment.

The red society

The Earldom of Fallsbury wrote:We have universal basic income and and all services are free. There is no need for everyone to work and that's simply impractical in the modern age. Free to engage in intellectual and artistic pursuits, and personal betterment.

If your nation was put into reality, it would collapse. Your currency would have no value, because of the incredibly high taxes, so you wouldn't even have good workers in the government, because the supply of workers would be very small, causing a surge in wages, oh no I mean an EXPLOSION of wages, until nobody would be willing to work, so your free services wouldn't be able to be sustained anymore, causing a collapse of the government and the economy. Everyone would probably start to use foreign currencies then, or cryptocurrencies, or other valuable commodities, to do trade. And your government wouldn't be able to do anything because they wouldn't ave enough workers, so it would simply disappear, and it would probably be replaced by a new one. The only way to sustain such a society is through mandatory work, and this is bad for the happiness and the freedom of the people.

Conclusion: In real life, your nation is HORRIBLE.

The red society

The Earldom of Fallsbury and your people wouldn't be really "free to engage in intellectual and artistic pursuits, and personal betterment", because they would simply STARVE.

The red society

The Earldom of Fallsbury just face it: communism doesn't work.

I think what they meant is that in the modern age, we could feasibly have fully automated government run factories to provide goods and sustain the economy. I suspect your focus on workers being needed is a misunderstanding.

The red society and The Earldom of Fallsbury

Now perhaps not all services should be free, but people should have the right to at least what is needed to survive. I’m not saying we should give everyone a mansion or something, but we could perhaps have government run apartment complexes for the homeless. The apartments wouldn’t be very good, but they would at least be livable. People should also be able to get basic rations. Nothing fancy, but enough to live. Clean water and healthcare too, of course.

The red society and The Earldom of Fallsbury

Once again, judging communism from a capitalist pair of eyes.

Workers, currency and competition are critical in a capitalist reality. In a communist post modern reality, they are not needed. Just because something is needed for X to work, doesn’t mean Y won’t work because it lacks them.

Lightford wrote:Sweet. I kicked my NS country's arms industry into action in statistics. It soared by 3953%!!! Militarism pays off. The statistics would be inaccurate however would be inaccurate as it'd have a large arms expenditure and size in RP terms due to a consistent interventionist militarism policy replacing isolationism in the 1930's.

I thought your nation was a non-interventionist one? Last time I checked your military spending, it was very low considering how lower in the rankings your nation was.

Can you elaborate this peculiar change in the lore of your country (the 30s thing). Because if it is so, then there could have been a possibility our militaries could have clashed (on the high seas).

The red society

The red society

Flugel tribe wrote:Once again, judging communism from a capitalist pair of eyes.

Workers, currency and competition are critical in a capitalist reality. In a communist post modern reality, they are not needed. Just because something is needed for X to work, doesn’t mean Y won’t work because it lacks them.

If the economy needs workers to work properly (which means some economic sectors are not yet fully automatized), then you need to give some advantages for these workers so that they keep working. Or you can force them to work, but this is not fun for them. You can't keep workers working if they are not willing to work without any advantage. In a capitalist society, currency is the advantage.

Qassadia wrote:I thought your nation was a non-interventionist one? Last time I checked your military spending, it was very low considering how lower in the rankings your nation was.

Can you elaborate this peculiar change in the lore of your country (the 30s thing). Because if it is so, then there could have been a possibility our militaries could have clashed (on the high seas).

Even in the Traditionalist Era, a military still existed albeit not funded very much (if at all) and was of little to no priority. The role of it at the time was more of a militia rather than a true force as it primarily performed law enforcement duties. It was fairly blurred with the police. This was to deter anyone from invading and dragging Lightford into foreign affairs. Similar to armed neutrality of Switzerland. This has inadvertently created a image that Lightford is internally pacifistic and peaceful due to its isolation, thus attracting an incredible influx of immigrants. Due to the lack of information by Lightford shared to the rest of the world, that was only an assumption. Immigrants and other minorities suffered racist, xenophobic, nativist, and prejudiced attitudes of people and the police. De facto segregation has forced whites and non-whites to be separate from each other. It wasn't until the passage of the 16th Amendment of the Constitution that actually resulted in a internally peaceful Lightfordian society. It banned discrimination and granted equal rights for everyone (except LGBT people in practice). While it wasn't internationally involved, it has largely became a economic hegemon due to its high contactless trade with the world which has attributed to its economic boom.

Article IX of the Lightfordian constitution (I'm planning to make a dispatch of the entire document) deals with the military and law enforcement. Section 1 of it states that "A regular defense force must be maintained at all times irrespective of peace", explaining its permanent existence. During the Traditionalist Era, there were several desperate attempts to add a constitutional amendment repelling Section 1 of Article IX and abolish the military. None of them have succeeded due to fears that security would be shed. There was one attempt that NEARLY succeeded. That was in 1922 when a amendment passed in the House of Representatives but failed by just one vote in the Senate.

During Hollis Pickering's presidency, the Great Depression has hit Lightford. This has damaged him and the Conservative party due to his passivity. Even his own party was pitted against him. In the 1930 legislative midterm elections, the liberals regained control of the Congress after 42 years since their last grip on it in 1888. On 11 August, 1931, the Lightfordian Civil War (I'm making a factbook of that so I'll only summarize here) broke out when expatriates, defectors deported from Lightford, former students, indoctrinated in Soviet schools, and scholars carried a communist insurrection under the leadership of Keir Traylor against the government. The two events have proven that isolationism has became an obsolete ideology. They in turn also severely eroded Lightford's strength including its economic status. The Conservative party stopped espousing isolationism in its 1932 platform and no major political party since then has supported the said ideology.

Hollis Pickering maintained his anti-militaristic views. The Congress passed numerous bills pertaining to the Great Depression and the Lightfordian Civil War. All of his vetos were overridden by the Congress. His reputation is permanently marred as he was blamed for being passive about the Great Depression, the Lightfordian Civil War, and the losses of territory to insurgent forces. In the 1932 election, Rowan Hendry has defeated Hollis Pickering. This has marked the first shift to a different political party in 44 years since 1888 and the liberals took back all institutions of the government. It rebirthed liberalism and Lightford has been recommitted to the principles of liberal democracy after years of gradual democratic backslide. The election has also effectively ended the de facto dominant party system and the two party system was reborn. The extremists have tried to use democratic means to seize power. But their share of votes was too low among the public thus hastening their aggression even more.

With Hendry's term beginning in 1933, he took a much more brazen role in economic recovery and the Lightfordian Civil War. The military was remobilized, promoted high spending, and launched a series of relief programs. Diplomatic relations were also reinstated with some countries for the first time since the Traditionalist Era. While the programs were considerably hampered by the war, this helped to hasten his popularity. Although the war was exacerbating the depression and hardships, it in turn also helped the economy recover as it presented new employment opportunities for fields such as manufacturing and helped improve employment in general. Eventually the military became trained and powerful enough to quell the insurrections. Despite instability, fair democratic elections remained uninterrupted and mostly transparent and mostly After 8 years of brutal fighting, the Lightfordian Civil War has ended on 30 September, 1939, when all rebel forces that were communists, nationalists (fascists), and Christian fundamentalists have all surrendered to the Lightfordian government.

The war has entrenched Lightford's status as a strong country. It inspired a new sense of unity and nationalism. The country ended up becoming wealthier than it was before the war and remained a developed country. When World War II broke out, Lightford decided to rebuild itself and refresh its armed forces rebuild instead before entering it despite the potential dangers it'll inflict on Lightford and the world if neglected. After France fell, Lightford declared war on the Axis on 8 July, 1940. That's where Lightford has finally came back to the international stage. When the war ended, it officially confirmed Lightford's status as a hegemony. The scars of the Lightfordian Civil War were considered to be fully healed by 1950. Every year and presidency since 1933, the armed forces and foreign affairs was of high priority. Defense funding was only cut during times of recession. The proportion of the defense expenditure has surged after the late 1970's when commodities such as healthcare, education, and housing were nationalized. That has largely increased the government expenditure and significantly reduced demands of funds to the said fields, as such much of the surplus savings were allocated to the military. The military is considered a fountain of patriotism by Lightfordians due to its essential meaning.

Lightford wrote:
Even in the Traditionalist Era, a military still existed albeit not funded very much (if at all) and was of little to no priority. The role of it at the time was more of a militia rather than a true force as it primarily performed law enforcement duties. It was fairly blurred with the police. This was to deter anyone from invading and dragging Lightford into foreign affairs. Similar to armed neutrality of Switzerland. This has inadvertently created a image that Lightford is internally pacifistic and peaceful due to its isolation, thus attracting an incredible influx of immigrants. Due to the lack of information by Lightford shared to the rest of the world, that was only an assumption. Immigrants and other minorities suffered racist, xenophobic, nativist, and prejudiced attitudes of people and the police. De facto segregation has forced whites and non-whites to be separate from each other. It wasn't until the passage of the 16th Amendment of the Constitution that actually resulted in a internally peaceful Lightfordian society. It banned discrimination and granted equal rights for everyone (except LGBT people in practice). While it wasn't internationally involved, it has largely became a economic hegemon due to its high contactless trade with the world which has attributed to its economic boom.

Article IX of the Lightfordian constitution (I'm planning to make a dispatch of the entire document) deals with the military and law enforcement. Section 1 of it states that "A regular defense force must be maintained at all times irrespective of peace", explaining its permanent existence. During the Traditionalist Era, there were several desperate attempts to add a constitutional amendment repelling Section 1 of Article IX and abolish the military. None of them have succeeded due to fears that security would be shed. There was one attempt that NEARLY succeeded. That was in 1922 when a amendment passed in the House of Representatives but failed by just one vote in the Senate.

During Hollis Pickering's presidency, the Great Depression has hit Lightford. This has damaged him and the Conservative party due to his passivity. Even his own party was pitted against him. In the 1930 legislative midterm elections, the liberals regained control of the Congress after 42 years since their last grip on it in 1888. On 11 August, 1931, the Lightfordian Civil War (I'm making a factbook of that so I'll only summarize here) broke out when expatriates, defectors deported from Lightford, former students, indoctrinated in Soviet schools, and scholars carried a communist insurrection against the government. The two events have proven that isolationism has became an obsolete ideology. They in turn also severely eroded Lightford's strength including its economic status. The Conservative party stopped espousing isolationism in its 1932 platform and no major political party since then has supported the said ideology.

Hollis Pickering maintained his anti-militaristic views. The Congress passed numerous bills pertaining to the Great Depression and the Lightfordian Civil War. All of his vetos were overridden by the Congress. His reputation is permanently marred as he was blamed for being passive about the Great Depression, the Lightfordian Civil War, and the losses of territory to insurgent forces. In the 1932 election, Rowan Hendry has defeated Hollis Pickering. This has marked the first shift to a different political party in 44 years since 1888 and the liberals took back all institutions of the government. It rebirthed liberalism and Lightford has been recommitted to the principles of liberal democracy after years of gradual democratic backslide. The election has also effectively ended the de facto dominant party system and the two party system was reborn. The extremists have tried to use democratic means to seize power. But their share of votes was too low among the public thus hastening their aggression even more.

With Hendry's term beginning in 1933, he took a much more brazen role in economic recovery and the Lightfordian Civil War. The military was remobilized, promoted high spending, and launched a series of relief programs. Diplomatic relations were also reinstated with some countries for the first time since the Traditionalist Era. While the programs were considerably hampered by the war, this helped to hasten his popularity. Although the war was exacerbating the depression and hardships, it in turn also helped the economy recover as it presented new employment opportunities for fields such as manufacturing and helped improve employment in general. Eventually the military became trained and powerful enough to quell the insurrections. Despite instability, fair democratic elections remained uninterrupted and mostly transparent and mostly After 8 years of brutal fighting, the Lightfordian Civil War has ended on 30 September, 1939, when all rebel forces that were communists, nationalists (fascists), and Christian fundamentalists have all surrendered to the Lightfordian government.

The war has entrenched Lightford's status as a strong country. It inspired a new sense of unity and nationalism. The country ended up becoming wealthier than it was before the war and remained a developed country. When World War II broke out, Lightford decided to rebuild itself and refresh its armed forces rebuild instead before entering it despite the potential dangers it'll inflict on Lightford and the world if neglected. After France fell, Lightford declared war on the Axis on 8 July, 1940. That's where Lightford has finally came back to the international stage. When the war ended, it officially confirmed Lightford's status as a hegemony. The scars of the Lightfordian Civil War were considered to be fully healed by 1950. Every year and presidency since 1933, the armed forces and foreign affairs was of high priority. Defense funding was only cut during times of recession. The proportion of the defense expenditure has surged after the late 1970's when commodities such as healthcare, education, and housing were nationalized. That has largely increased the government expenditure and significantly reduced demands of funds to the said fields, as such much of the surplus savings were allocated to the military. The military is considered a fountain of patriotism by Lightfordians due to its essential meaning.

"Hegemony"?, can you describe this into more accurate terms as to how? Do you mean a regional one, and if so, then our two nations would have been at odds ever for a long time.

Such situation would resemble the current rivalry between Saudi Arabia and Iran, which in our RL have been butting heads over who can be the hegemon of the region.

You have to also take into account that Cassadia during the Cold War period was considered by the US and NATO as a "valued dependable ally against the ever encroaching threat of communism". Thus being allowed to purchase the latest military hardware and equipment in vast quantities even when they were right about to be put into service.

Not to mention the hostility based on ideology or outlook on how the world outlook or how society should be organised. With Lightford being a democracy while Cassadia on the other hand is a resurgent absolutist monarchy. Our nations would have more than likely have had elevated periods of tension since the early 1990s with the end of the Cold War.

J-o-e wrote:Now perhaps not all services should be free, but people should have the right to at least what is needed to survive. I’m not saying we should give everyone a mansion or something, but we could perhaps have government run apartment complexes for the homeless. The apartments wouldn’t be very good, but they would at least be livable. People should also be able to get basic rations. Nothing fancy, but enough to live. Clean water and healthcare too, of course.

You are correct I should have said Basic & Essential services. And the housing could easily be very comfortable and pleasant. We are nearing a point were post scarcity is a real thing.

The red society

The red society wrote:The Earldom of Fallsbury and your people wouldn't be really "free to engage in intellectual and artistic pursuits, and personal betterment", because they would simply STARVE.

Your people would starve, most live like wildmen in the woods because they can't afford to buy a road to get to a job they can't have because the couldn't afford to learn to read, but don't worry most won't live past age 10 anyway since no one can afford a doctor and have to drink out of the same stream they use as a toilet. I'm sure some live in company housing, but the tiny bit they are paid, is owed to the company store many times over. And forget about starting a buisness of your own because there's no way a bank would loan to any of the poors.

J-o-e

The red society wrote:Milton Friedman is a very good economist that died in 2006.

He was a grifter that took money from multibillion dollar companies to explain that polluting, poisoning, hollowing out the middle class, grinding the poor to dust, mass exploitation of everything and everyone, and in general, greed was a really good thing actually. And, side note, credited with "the dumbest idea in human history" by Forbes magazine. Just about the only people who still think he has any credibility are you and the Trump administration.

J-o-e

The red society wrote:However, there is still the problem of economic inclusion, and the only way to have a good economic inclusion is to have the government control the economy or to have a free market (free markets are better because they really provide what the market wants and they give freedom to the people).

Free markets as you mean them don't exist and cannot exist. The closer you approach to it the profit motive of the of those involved becomes a greater factor leading to a boom & bust cycle, each time concentrating the wealth into a smaller and richer oligarch class. People don't behave like math equations as nice as that would be for your argument.

Land of moeney

Helo i a new to this game

Welcome to any new members I hope you enjoy the happiness of our nations. C:

Evokice, Lightford, The red society, The Earldom of Fallsbury, and 1 otherLand of moeney

The red society

The Earldom of Fallsbury wrote:Your people would starve, most live like wildmen in the woods because they can't afford to buy a road to get to a job they can't have because the couldn't afford to learn to read, but don't worry most won't live past age 10 anyway since no one can afford a doctor and have to drink out of the same stream they use as a toilet. I'm sure some live in company housing, but the tiny bit they are paid, is owed to the company store many times over. And forget about starting a buisness of your own because there's no way a bank would loan to any of the poors.

This argument doesn't work in a country where businesses are owned by their workers. Oppression of the proletariat by the rich class can't really exist if workplace democracy is everywhere.

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