by Max Barry

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Great ingen wrote:And yet you still walked out on us ;_;

And yet after months no agreement had been reached nor had any progress been made. A reality that isn’t the solely the fault of either side but does demonstrate how futile those negotiations were. If you wanted to continue bashing your head into that wall, more power to you, I guess?

IshCong wrote:And yet after months no agreement had been reached nor had any progress been made. A reality that isn’t the solely the fault of either side but does demonstrate how futile those negotiations were. If you wanted to continue bashing your head into that wall, more power to you, I guess?

Well I mean your negotiator did quit to join us. We didn't get everything we wanted but we stuck it out, we didn't quit. Noone forced Barlat to walk away from the table. You were perfectly within your rights to do so, it's just a game, but if you walked away then the people left at the table have to/get to clean up what's left

Royalist kingdom

Great ingen wrote:Oh dang mang, long time no see! We haven't spoken since Laptev went FT. I think! How are things?

Currently retired actually, but still snooping around from time to time as you may have seen. Quite sure we met back in 2009, pretty much like 9 years ago.

Great ingen

Royalist kingdom wrote:Currently retired actually, but still snooping around from time to time as you may have seen. Quite sure we met back in 2009, pretty much like 9 years ago.

Nearly a decade, still sounds weird eh. Feels like yesterday

Redemption-america

Great ingen wrote:Nearly a decade, still sounds weird eh. Feels like yesterday

dang... Feels old reading this. it was what, 2007 when I rolled into FBN... dang.

Redemption-america and Royalist kingdom

Great ingen wrote:Well I mean your negotiator did quit to join us. We didn't get everything we wanted but we stuck it out, we didn't quit. Noone forced Barlat to walk away from the table. You were perfectly within your rights to do so, it's just a game, but if you walked away then the people left at the table have to/get to clean up what's left

Okay? And? I'm really not sure what you expected or want from this? This is exactly what I said would happen when you asked about it in Disc. You're going to write your story, your tower of whimsy, regardless of what we say. And the members of Barlat were going to and do disagree with what lies contained within that tower. I don't expect you to change any of the really substantive parts of said tower (because I have no illusions anyone's going to convince you to do so), and I do appreciate the edits you did make (Isetyai, Ishii).

What more is there to be said? Do you want someone to say you have some moral right to write our histories for us? I really don't get what you're after here.

IshCong wrote:

What more is there to be said? Do you want someone to say you have some moral right to write our histories for us? I really don't get what you're after here.

Idk mang, I posted a weebly article for interest and feedback and you yourself gave useful feedback

Others, however, insisted I was trolling or that Barlat disbanded (a point even former members of Barlat seem to disagree on) because it had 'wiped out' Laptev, and those are really the points I was addressing

If you feel you've nothing more to say then cool, guess you don't need to say anything more?

Great ingen wrote:Idk mang, I posted a weebly article for interest and feedback and you yourself gave useful feedback

Others, however, insisted I was trolling or that Barlat disbanded (a point even former members of Barlat seem to disagree on) because it had 'wiped out' Laptev, and those are really the points I was addressing

If you feel you've nothing more to say then cool, guess you don't need to say anything more?

IDK. I got the idea you were trying to get at something with some of your posts?

At any rate, the only member, former or current, who has disagreed on that point has been Alex. And even he said he considered both Barlat and the Axis defunct for identical reasons, after being out of contact with everyone for years. Everyone else is in agreement.
I don't think anyone other than Xie's going to suggest Laptev was wiped out. Could be wrong, not speaking for everyone. I know even the troll page Kira and I made had it end as a (Laptev-requested, I'll admit) ceasefire.
I feel like we're actually really all on mostly the same page at this point.

Redemption-america

IshCong wrote:Okay? And? I'm really not sure what you expected or want from this? This is exactly what I said would happen when you asked about it in Disc. You're going to write your story, your tower of whimsy, regardless of what we say. And the members of Barlat were going to and do disagree with what lies contained within that tower. I don't expect you to change any of the really substantive parts of said tower (because I have no illusions anyone's going to convince you to do so), and I do appreciate the edits you did make (Isetyai, Ishii).

What more is there to be said? Do you want someone to say you have some moral right to write our histories for us? I really don't get what you're after here.

Honestly I always assumed that Peter did actually live in a physical Tower of Whimsy.

IshCong, Royalist kingdom, Royal Frankia, and Great ingen

IshCong wrote:IDK. I got the idea you were trying to get at something with some of your posts?

At any rate, the only member, former or current, who has disagreed on that point has been Alex. And even he said he considered both Barlat and the Axis defunct for identical reasons, after being out of contact with everyone for years. Everyone else is in agreement.
I don't think anyone other than Xie's going to suggest Laptev was wiped out. Could be wrong, not speaking for everyone. I know even the troll page Kira and I made had it end as a (Laptev-requested, I'll admit) ceasefire.
I feel like we're actually really all on mostly the same page at this point.

Xie did also imply that Barlat disbanded since they had achieved their goal of "wiping out" Laptev

I mean we are largely on the same page. The Axis had a canon period of isolation to cover the offforum character RPs and stuff we did, and it's unlikely that we'll ever RP together in a major way anyway so live and let live. But just for the record, if it ever somehow comes up and needs to be settled how it ended - Laptev's version is the version written by the side who didn't walk away from the table, who didn't pressure their own negotiator so badly he defected, and who wanted to find some solution (RP, prewritten, vidysgame duel etc) that they stayed until Barlat stopped talking to us

Great houses of xie

I never considered barlat to have ever disbanded. Even though the goal was accomplished, suddenly imposed upon barlat, there existed no reason to disband, considering the the prewar situation would have been restored, in that barlat remains a very loose coalition of friendly nations. Barlats reason for existence was never to defeat its enemies, thus when there are none left, barlat would still continue to exist

As has been repeatedly stated by others, there is this misconception that barlat has some central identity, and by extension that if such a perceived identity were to disappear, barlat would, too.

Tldr: barlat never disbanded

Great houses of xie wrote:. Even though the goal was accomplished,

[citation needed]

Royalist kingdom

The theme song of the B-L fiasco: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uMAYcVke5K8

Great houses of xie

Also, no need to say, "for the record," since the actual record shows that Peter locked the negotiations thread, lol. So much for Barlat walking away from the table, when Laptev blew up the table to stop anyone from trying to negotiate.

Great houses of xie wrote:Also, no need to say, "for the record," since the actual record shows that Peter locked the negotiations thread, lol. So much for Barlat walking away from the table, when Laptev blew up the table to stop anyone from trying to negotiate.

Pls upload the archives so we can all see everything :) because as far as I remember, once you announced that you were bailing everything descended into shetposting and I was in fact still a moderator. I mean, are you now saying Barlat were raring to go, to "continue bashing your head into that wall" as PJ so eloquently described Laptevs willingness to negotiate, and that you had a negotiator lined up to replace Redemption?

Because if you storm out of my house and I lock the door after you, you're still the one who stormed out lel

EDIT - since you didn't see it apparently, when you claim of the war "the goal was accomplished,"

no u

Royalist kingdom

Great ingen wrote:Pls upload the archives so we can all see everything :) because as far as I remember, once you announced that you were bailing everything descended into shetposting and I was in fact still a moderator. I mean, are you now saying Barlat were raring to go, to "continue bashing your head into that wall" as PJ so eloquently described Laptevs willingness to negotiate, and that you had a negotiator lined up to replace Redemption?

I called it bashing our heads into a wall because we had been arguing for over two months with over 500 posts in the dedicated argument threads alone (not counting the OOC piles of filth in the actual threads) without resolution and not a whole lot of progress. That isn't a criticism of either side's willingness to negotiate, but rather just how awful the entire thing was.

At any rate, there were two argument threads, one in RP and one in Gen. Disc (for whatever reason?). The one Xie is referring to is the RP one, which still had ongoing posting. You locked that one, saying it had devolved into insults. Which it had. By all sides. Five years later I hope we can all own that much at least. The Gen Disc. one was created after the RP one, though I'm not sure of the exact timing because the archives didn't keep time stamps.

And oh, I hate everything about this for making me go back and look through that.

Royalist kingdom and Great ingen

IshCong wrote:I called it bashing our heads into a wall because we had been arguing for over two months with over 500 posts in the dedicated argument threads alone (not counting the OOC piles of filth in the actual threads) without resolution and not a whole lot of progress. That isn't a criticism of either side's willingness to negotiate, but rather just how awful the entire thing was.

At any rate, there were two argument threads, one in RP and one in Gen. Disc (for whatever reason?). The one Xie is referring to is the RP one, which still had ongoing posting. You locked that one, saying it had devolved into insults. Which it had. By all sides. Five years later I hope we can all own that much at least. The Gen Disc. one was created after the RP one, though I'm not sure of the exact timing because the archives didn't keep time stamps.

And oh, I hate everything about this for making me go back and look through that.

Ahh that sounds right. So as we would all, for once, agree, the RP was going nowhere since we couldn't agree. I locked it so we could focus on the OOC discussion of HOW to RP, as you can't RP whilst negotiating the rules of said RP. Barlat eventually quit those negotiations because of Reasons.

And Nathan tries to paint my locking of the IC thread as me locking the OOC discussion thread? Presably hoping he can thereby obscure the fact Barlat bailed on the discussions, not Laptev? Ayyy lmao

Great ingen wrote:Ahh that sounds right. So as we would all, for once, agree, the RP was going nowhere since we couldn't agree. I locked it so we could focus on the OOC discussion of HOW to RP, as you can't RP whilst negotiating the rules of said RP. Barlat eventually quit those negotiations because of Reasons.

And Nathan tries to paint my locking of the IC thread as me locking the OOC discussion thread? Presably hoping he can thereby obscure the fact Barlat bailed on the discussions, not Laptev? Ayyy lmao

Ah, not quite. There were two purely OOC threads. One was in the General Discussion forum. The other was in the RP forums. It wasn't 'the IC thread' (of which there were probably about a dozen plus besides) that was locked. It was the OOC 'discussion/negotiation/talk' thread in the RP forum that was locked. The various IC threads had, however, been frozen (I think some remained open on a case by case basis), but that was more by mutual agreement for the above reasons.

Great ingen

IshCong wrote:Ah, not quite. There were two purely OOC threads. One was in the General Discussion forum. The other was in the RP forums. It wasn't 'the IC thread' (of which there were probably about a dozen plus besides) that was locked. It was the OOC 'discussion/negotiation/talk' thread in the RP forum that was locked. The various IC threads had, however, been frozen (I think some remained open on a case by case basis), but that was more by mutual agreement for the above reasons.

Ah ok, so I locked the flamewar but left a discussion thread open? Nathan care to explain why Barlat abandoning the open thread is my fault?

Royalist kingdom

Great houses of xie

lol, now you're saying that I said that you locked the IC thread? I, too, like words being put into my mouth. And there was the one designated discussion thread, which was locked by you. The other open one was not of substance, as it was not the designated discussion thread.

Also, as clearly pointed out above, it's hard to "come back to discussions" when there were none happening, be it aforementioned flaming and locked threads. Furthermore, when you reject compromises that had been offered by your own side, that had been accepted by the opposing, it's clear that you weren't interested in actually discussing anything and were merely pretending; this point is further driven home by pre- and post-war RPs where various contested points, by Peter, were used freely without complaint.

After you locked the only area meant to facilitate talks, you then blame Barlat for walking away. This is the first time I've seen a group accused of not trying to negotiate in good faith after the opposing side nuked the table, never mind the hilarious level of stonewalling by the side that wound up nuking the table.

At this point, stating further that Barlat did not abandon whatever negotiations there were is apparently not going to get through, since you are dead set on insisting that it did. By all means, continue insisting as such, that there is some fault to be assigned, or that there's some moral high ground resulting; this is my last on the matter

Great houses of xie wrote:lol, now you're saying that I said that you locked the IC thread? I, too, like words being put into my mouth. And there was the one designated discussion thread, which was locked by you. The other open one was not of substance, as it was not the designated discussion thread.

Also, as clearly pointed out above, it's hard to "come back to discussions" when there were none happening, be it aforementioned flaming and locked threads. Furthermore, when you reject compromises that had been offered by your own side, that had been accepted by the opposing, it's clear that you weren't interested in actually discussing anything and were merely pretending; this point is further driven home by pre- and post-war RPs where various contested points, by Peter, were used freely without complaint.

After you locked the only area meant to facilitate talks, you then blame Barlat for walking away. This is the first time I've seen a group accused of not trying to negotiate in good faith after the opposing side nuked the table, never mind the hilarious level of stonewalling by the side that wound up nuking the table.

At this point, stating further that Barlat did not abandon whatever negotiations there were is apparently not going to get through, since you are dead set on insisting that it did. By all means, continue insisting as such, that there is some fault to be assigned, or that there's some moral high ground resulting; this is my last on the matter

K sure lol

> There was an open negotiation thread. You deemed it inferior to the locked flamewar (apparently?) and walked. That's your choice
> Your own appointee got sick of your behaviour and defected to us
> Actually of the six major points, a format initially suggested by me, Laptev (who actually agreed internally on our approach) accepted many of Barlat's proposals. Nobody defected to us because we were the more stubborn party

Let's all just agree that I won fb nations and move on. 😉

IshCong, Alexzonya, Royalist kingdom, and Great ingen

Amigosa wrote:Let's all just agree that I won fb nations and move on. 😉

Alex M
9 March 2012 · Upper Providence, PA, United States
So, if Nations really is dead, I guess San Alejandro wins! Huzzah!

tbf this guy called shotgun on winning so I don't even know anymore

Royalist kingdom

Alex Marino was certainly an amusing role-player fella, and by certain emotional standards, friendship was seemingly considered at that time and eventually achieved. Good memories back in 2010, to say the least.

When you find an article detailing an fbn war between the Galactic Republic, the Imperium of Man, My Little Pony and the Discworld

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/rXBm9GGyM2A/hqdefault.jpg

Amigosa, IshCong, Dong wu, Royalist kingdom, and 1 otherPordlandia

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