by Max Barry

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Rothella wrote:Democratic Coup!?

speech that sways the senate just before the election >:)

Derika wrote:thats what they are yeah

something big as in a 'threat' acre's leadership

Sotorak may be forced by internal pressure to cut off relations with Derika

he'll try to hold it on both because he likes Acre and the High Magi wanting to milk Derika of all their foreign aid

Latorik wrote:Albanians are not necessarily 'meh', veterans are explicitly superhuman.

I dont really see what Derikan influence has to do with them being cost-effective

which was most likely considerably cheaper than a derikan advance due to the low level logistics required by most of their army (with what is required being self-tended to by Magi) rather than the rather insane level of maintenance required by many heavier elements of the Derikan military

I meant more the slave soldiers given to the Derikans. I doubt Albania would willingly give high-quality soldiers to Derika on a constant basis.

Derikans would see funneling Albanian troops, providing them with orbital and air support as them paying for another nations war effort as well as their own. I doubt anyone would want to pay taxes to fund another nation when they'd rather do it for their own. At least, that's how I would feel. What's wrong with my government's military that it's using another nation's military to protect me? Is my government weak? Should I fear for my safety?

Derika wrote:speech that sways the senate just before the election >:)

:D

Rothella wrote:I meant more the slave soldiers given to the Derikans. I doubt Albania would willingly give high-quality soldiers to Derika on a constant basis.

Derikans would see funneling Albanian troops, providing them with orbital and air support as them paying for another nations war effort as well as their own. I doubt anyone would want to pay taxes to fund another nation when they'd rather do it for their own. At least, that's how I would feel. What's wrong with my government's military that it's using another nation's military to protect me? Is my government weak? Should I fear for my safety?

Tithing soldiers generally does net you some rather average guys but they are still albanians.

Which at the very least involves surviving at least one brutal campaign.

I mean.

"wow thank god the military's using these crazy barbarians to soak up all these grueling conflicts instead of my son/daughter/brother/sister!"

and the us government funds other militaries for their own protection all the time lol

japan

afghanistan

south korea

pakistan

israel

The difference is Derika has the added benefit of directly utilizing the military forces they funded

Latorik wrote:Tithing soldiers generally does net you some rather average guys but they are still albanians.

Which at the very least involves surviving at least one brutal campaign.

I mean.

"wow thank god the military's using these crazy barbarians to soak up all these grueling conflicts instead of my son/daughter/brother/sister!"

and the us government funds other militaries for their own protection all the time lol

japan

afghanistan

south korea

pakistan

israel

I mean yeah. But Derika is a more militarist society. It takes pride in it's military, for it to use another nations army to protect itself seems kind of cowardly. Not to mention, the logistics of a slave soldier. They cost money to feed, heal, house and search for when or if they escape. I get your point that the US does it all the time, but Derika isn't a democracy (ish) it's an empire.

Rothella wrote:I mean yeah. But Derika is a more militarist society. It takes pride in it's military, for it to use another nations army to protect itself seems kind of cowardly. Not to mention, the logistics of a slave soldier. They cost money to feed, heal, house and search for when or if they escape. I get your point that the US does it all the time, but Derika isn't a democracy (ish) it's an empire.

At least, I'm assuming it's a militarist society that takes pride in its military. If it's not then I'm wrong on that point.

Rothella wrote:I mean yeah. But Derika is a more militarist society. It takes pride in it's military, for it to use another nations army to protect itself seems kind of cowardly. Not to mention, the logistics of a slave soldier. They cost money to feed, heal, house and search for when or if they escape. I get your point that the US does it all the time, but Derika isn't a democracy (ish) it's an empire.

i dont search for them lol

they get lost they get lost

Rothella wrote:At least, I'm assuming it's a militarist society that takes pride in its military. If it's not then I'm wrong on that point.

no it is

Derika wrote:i dont search for them lol

they get lost they get lost

F. Waste of money spent transporting, feeding, cleaning, housing, and providing medicine to them.

Rothella wrote:I mean yeah. But Derika is a more militarist society. It takes pride in it's military, for it to use another nations army to protect itself seems kind of cowardly. Not to mention, the logistics of a slave soldier. They cost money to feed, heal, house and search for when or if they escape. I get your point that the US does it all the time, but Derika isn't a democracy (ish) it's an empire.

I was using slave soldiers in a semi-joking manner.

Albanians are genetically bred and trained to follow orders without question, they aren't actual 'slave soldiers' beyond not having a choice beyond being a soldier

Money to feed, heal, and house is a cost brought on by literally every soldier.

And they are coming out of a major civil war, Derika is explicitly de-militarizing for the most part

Latorik wrote:I was using slave soldiers in a semi-joking manner.

Albanians are genetically bred and trained to follow orders without question, they aren't actual 'slave soldiers' beyond not having a choice beyond being a soldier

Money to feed, heal, and house is a cost brought on by literally every soldier.

And they are coming out of a major civil war, Derika is explicitly de-militarizing for the most part

I mean yeah, but not to the degree of a slave. They have to ensure that they don't escape, so the housing facilities will have to be secured beyond belief to ensure they don't get out. But since they're not slaves that point is sort of invalid.

Doesn't change the general populace's belief. THe demilitarization was a diplomatic and economic move, I don't think we've seen anything about the publics opinion about the sudden change in policy.

Rothella wrote:I mean yeah, but not to the degree of a slave. They have to ensure that they don't escape, so the housing facilities will have to be secured beyond belief to ensure they don't get out. But since they're not slaves that point is sort of invalid.

Doesn't change the general populace's belief. THe demilitarization was a diplomatic and economic move, I don't think we've seen anything about the publics opinion about the sudden change in policy.

and the idea of it being some sort of huge drain on derikan taxes is silly.

Look at what Derika does domestically and compare that to the aid given to Albania.

For Albania

-A large quantity of older small arms
-Some atmospheric craft that was later heavily retrofitted by the albanians
-Transferred Albanian airmen to a Derikan training facility so they could be effectively trained in the use of said atmospheric craft
-Frequent transport of soldiers and the mounting of two major campaigns, the first one being drawn most likely from Acre's own personal wealth due to the civil war.

The 15 kilometer dreadnought alone probably dwarfs what comparatively little aid Albania has received by at least ten times the amount, not accounting for the general maintenance of a fleet consisting of tens of thousands of ships

They didn't even assist in the shipbuilding process beyond providing a jumping point.

Albania sourced that themselves from an Oceania company

Latorik wrote:and the idea of it being some sort of huge drain on derikan taxes is silly.

Look at what Derika does domestically and compare that to the aid given to Albania.

For Albania

-A large quantity of older small arms
-Some atmospheric craft that was later heavily retrofitted by the albanians
-Transferred Albanian airmen to a Derikan training facility so they could be effectively trained in the use of said atmospheric craft
-Frequent transport of soldiers and the mounting of two major campaigns, the first one being drawn most likely from Acre's own personal wealth due to the civil war.

The 15 kilometer dreadnought alone probably dwarfs what comparatively little aid Albania has received by at least ten times the amount, not accounting for the general maintenance of a fleet consisting of tens of thousands of ships

The costs of orbital bombardment for Albanian support.
Moving Derikan fleets to protect the Derikan transports holding Albanian soldiers
The cost of air support to assist the Albanian offensives
The cost of keeping Derikan ships in orbit, as the Albanians settle in for a battle of attrition on the planet
The cost of fending off enemy fleets as the Albanians continue to take the planet.
Fuel
Basically everything that an army would require, aside from the equipment, food and training that the Albanians already have.

I'm not saying that it's the costliest thing ever in the history of Derikan military, by far that is the 15 kilometer ship you mentioned. I'm saying that moving the Albanians during their offensives (the two that you mentioned, plus during the Eliksni war) would still cost Derikan tax money to support their movements and invasions. It's also a matter of national pride, this militarist society is now using a laugahbly weak military (In numbers, fleetpower, logistics and overall economy. Training is a different matter but the four aforementioned reasons are why I'm saying the Albanians are laughable when it comes to their army. However, the world really hasn't seen them at their peak in action/in much action at all aside from brief skirmishes at best).

If I were a Derikan citizen and my taxed money went to the Derikan military, why would I want to see it go to the Albanians to transport them? My taxes would go to Derika, for Derikans. Why are Albanians in the place of our honorable soldiers? Practically speaking, yes it is probably one of hte best options to transport the Albanians. But from a Derikan perspective? A militarist society which takes pride in its military? I just don't see it working out. Why would someone who takes pride in their military want to make another nation go to war for them and pay for them to go in your war? It's dishonorable and even embarrassing.

Latorik wrote:They didn't even assist in the shipbuilding process beyond providing a jumping point.

Albania sourced that themselves from an Oceania company

When did I say Derika spent money arming the Albanian military? I'm only focusing on transports and the use of Derikan weapons such as ships and planes to provide support for their assaults.

Rothella wrote:The costs of orbital bombardment for Albanian support.
Moving Derikan fleets to protect the Derikan transports holding Albanian soldiers
The cost of air support to assist the Albanian offensives
The cost of keeping Derikan ships in orbit, as the Albanians settle in for a battle of attrition on the planet
The cost of fending off enemy fleets as the Albanians continue to take the planet.
Fuel
Basically everything that an army would require, aside from the equipment, food and training that the Albanians already have.

I'm not saying that it's the costliest thing ever in the history of Derikan military, by far that is the 15 kilometer ship you mentioned. I'm saying that moving the Albanians during their offensives (the two that you mentioned, plus during the Eliksni war) would still cost Derikan tax money to support their movements and invasions. It's also a matter of national pride, this militarist society is now using a laugahbly weak military (In numbers, fleetpower, logistics and overall economy. Training is a different matter but the four aforementioned reasons are why I'm saying the Albanians are laughable when it comes to their army. However, the world really hasn't seen them at their peak in action/in much action at all aside from brief skirmishes at best).

If I were a Derikan citizen and my taxed money went to the Derikan military, why would I want to see it go to the Albanians to transport them? My taxes would go to Derika, for Derikans. Why are Albanians in the place of our honorable soldiers? Practically speaking, yes it is probably one of hte best options to transport the Albanians. But from a Derikan perspective? A militarist society which takes pride in its military? I just don't see it working out. Why would someone who takes pride in their military want to make another nation go to war for them and pay for them to go in your war? It's dishonorable and even embarrassing.When did I say Derika spent money arming the Albanian military? I'm only focusing on transports and the use of Derikan weapons such as ships and planes to provide support for their assaults.

You mentioned Derikan tax payer money going to Albanians, I brought up the fact that for the most part, material supply and other things are not necessarily a part of that equation.

Also Latorik is a pretty explicit part of Derika

They are a recognized noble house and their leader is the chief military advisor on the current Emperor's court.

What's more, everything you just stated could be applied to literally every other offensive the Derikans have ever pushed. Minus, of course, like you said, the cost of the training, equipment, and food.

And its not like noble houses having huge personal armies is exactly an uncommon thing in Derika. Look at Asar

Im not saying there wouldn't be any pushback against it but it would likely be more due to perceived nepotism rather than "grrr those pesky foreigners"

Latorik wrote:You mentioned Derikan tax payer money going to Albanians, I brought up the fact that for the most part, material supply and other things are not necessarily a part of that equation.

Also Latorik is a pretty explicit part of Derika

They are a recognized noble house and their leader is the chief military advisor on the current Emperor's court.

What's more, everything you just stated could be applied to literally every other offensive the Derikans have ever pushed. Minus, of course, like you said, the cost of the training, equipment, and food.

And its not like noble houses having huge personal armies is exactly an uncommon thing in Derika. Look at Asar

So the emperor perfers to use a private army over the federal army he already holds? The Derikan treasury is using money to support a private army that one of hte most powerful Derika houses? Wouldn't that just worsen Albania's position with the Derikan people, as their tax money is going to a different house? Especially when the house is a literal hellhole that deals often with freaks of nature. Yes, everything I stated can be applied to every literal Derikan offensive, but invading a planet cost a hell of an amount and sustained offensives with the use of the Albanian army planet by planet I doubt will be good for the Albanian economy. This is still going to raise tensions within Derika. Why are the taxes of a citizen in one house being spent for the offensives of another? I don't know how the Derikan tax system works but I'm going to assume, for the sake of the argument, a citizen is taxed by the house that rules over them and money is transferred to the Derikan government. What's the point of having a federal army if the private armies of the houses are being used to take over planets.

Latorik wrote:Im not saying there wouldn't be any pushback against it but it would likely be more due to perceived nepotism rather than "grrr those pesky foreigners"

Rothella wrote:So the emperor perfers to use a private army over the federal army he already holds? The Derikan treasury is using money to support a private army that one of hte most powerful Derika houses? Wouldn't that just worsen Albania's position with the Derikan people, as their tax money is going to a different house? Especially when the house is a literal hellhole that deals often with freaks of nature. Yes, everything I stated can be applied to every literal Derikan offensive, but invading a planet cost a hell of an amount and sustained offensives with the use of the Albanian army planet by planet I doubt will be good for the Albanian economy. This is still going to raise tensions within Derika. Why are the taxes of a citizen in one house being spent for the offensives of another? I don't know how the Derikan tax system works but I'm going to assume, for the sake of the argument, a citizen is taxed by the house that rules over them and money is transferred to the Derikan government. What's the point of having a federal army if the private armies of the houses are being used to take over planets.

lmao

Rothella wrote:So the emperor perfers to use a private army over the federal army he already holds? The Derikan treasury is using money to support a private army that one of hte most powerful Derika houses? Wouldn't that just worsen Albania's position with the Derikan people, as their tax money is going to a different house? Especially when the house is a literal hellhole that deals often with freaks of nature. Yes, everything I stated can be applied to every literal Derikan offensive, but invading a planet cost a hell of an amount and sustained offensives with the use of the Albanian army planet by planet I doubt will be good for the Albanian economy. This is still going to raise tensions within Derika. Why are the taxes of a citizen in one house being spent for the offensives of another? I don't know how the Derikan tax system works but I'm going to assume, for the sake of the argument, a citizen is taxed by the house that rules over them and money is transferred to the Derikan government. What's the point of having a federal army if the private armies of the houses are being used to take over planets.

Yeah but the cost of moving and supplying the albanians is, once again, a drop in the bucket compared to the massive amount of military spending derika utilizes literally everywhere else.

for both derikan offensives it was a highly specialized and fanatical private army on loan under the authority of the federal government on what amounted to very very high risk unorthodox operations, pretty outside the norm.

One a massive assault on a massively important Asar fortress world with basically all three major powers in which albanian specialists helped coordinate a partisan offensive to cut off valuable supply chains behind enemy lines and the other was an extremely dangerous foray into Eleskni controlled space to knock out forward operation bases and obtain data on a highly secretive enemy superweapon.

And its not like your taxes being spent on something totally unrelated is uncommon. Why are mine going to help fund a gender study in Pakistan rather than fill the potholes in my local road?

Post self-deleted by Rothella.

self edeleteda?

Latorik wrote:Yeah but the cost of moving and supplying the albanians is, once again, a drop in the bucket compared to the massive amount of military spending derika utilizes literally everywhere else.

for both derikan offensives it was a highly specialized and fanatical private army on loan under the authority of the federal government on what amounted to very very high risk unorthodox operations, pretty outside the norm.

One a massive assault on a massively important Asar fortress world with basically all three major powers in which albanian specialists helped coordinate a partisan offensive to cut off valuable supply chains behind enemy lines and the other was an extremely dangerous foray into Eleskni controlled space to knock out forward operation bases and obtain data on a highly secretive enemy superweapon.

And its not like your taxes being spent on something totally unrelated is uncommon. Why are mine going to help fund a gender study in Pakistan rather than fill the potholes in my local road?

Regardless. Moving their equipment, food and supplies. Moving them around. Protecting them. Supporting them in combat. Would still tick off the Derikan people. Why is the Derikan government using a private army when it has a perfectly good, honorable and outstanding army itself? From the Derikan citizens POV it doesn't make sense. How would you feel if you were funding Virginia's national guard when you lived in Wyoming and are already paying for your states national guard AND the federal military?

Latorik wrote:self edeleteda?

Started an argument, accidentally sent it and it wasn't formulated right.

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