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Honestly, I think it just taught dioceses not to reach out to Rome for advice on these matters unless they want that answer. There might be unknown factors in the Savannah case which may make the Savannah case more reasonable that the public is unaware of.
The Pilgrims in the Desert, Insulusia, Di-Camilleri di-Rosica, and Nascibility
All of Creation rightly owes you thanks and praise. Your justice, love and mercy abound. We thank you this day for all that you have given us:
For the Passion and Death of your Divine Son, we thank you Father, through the Cross, He redeemed the world.
For the Church, we thank you Father, it is our beacon for salvation.
For the martyrs and saints who give testimony to your Son, we thank you Father, their witness to your Son is our inheritance.
For our loved ones and friends who have died and gone before us, we thank you Father, their love abides with us forever.
For loving spouses, we thank you Father, together we seek you.
For the gift of children, we thank you Father, they are your precious gifts to us and to the world.
For the gift of our families, loved ones and good friends, we thank you Father, Through them we see the reflection of your Son.
For jobs, our homes and all that we have, we thank you Father, give us only that which we need, as we seek Your Kingdom.
For the bounty we are about to eat, we thank you through Christ Our Lord.
Attike, The Pilgrims in the Desert, Ottovanus, Di-Camilleri di-Rosica, and 2 othersSancti Sepulcri, and Decembria
Today my kids are getting Baptized into the Church!
Omensa, Castle Federation, Winquila, Fredgast, and 12 othersThomas More, QwertyL, Attike, Cristero, The Pilgrims in the Desert, Evangelium, Ottovanus, Beiranoah, Di-Camilleri di-Rosica, Sancti Sepulcri, Decembria, and Nascibility
Going to confession is so amazing. Words cannot describe how awesome it is!
His mercy endures forever, Amen!
Castle Federation, Attike, Cristero, The Pilgrims in the Desert, and 4 othersOttovanus, Sancti Sepulcri, Decembria, and Nascibility
So i am writing a book called King James Catholic
anyone want to read a part of it? Or know what its about
Fredgast, JohnPaulopolis, and Ottovanus
heres the link to the rough draft
please read it and give feedback
happy thanksgiving you guys
I kinda like it
a bit agressive, and can use a little more spice, but otherwise good
Hello all. If you remember who Vietnamese Catholic is, then it's me, that's my puppet.
So yesterday I went to a Vigil Mass but I was having a really bad stomachache. After spending over half of the Mass time in the church's restroom, I went out and the people were chanting Our Father, then I went into the church and participated the rest of the Mass. Anyway, I can't go to a Sunday Mass due to an accident that left me with my hand injured and my mom with intracerebral hemorrhage. I wanna ask you guys, will this be a sin of not participating Sunday Mass?
Well, I don't know all the details of the situation, but if it is unreasonable to attend Mass in person because of physical illness of disability, then it is not the fault of the person. One should seek to watch Mass on the internet or on TV and receive communion from a eucharistic minister who brings it to the sick from the nearest parish. So long as the situation remains the case, not attending Mass weekly is not a grave sin. However, if the situation changes, then the responsibility to return to Mass is there.
Attike, The Pilgrims in the Desert, Evangelium, Insulusia, and 2 othersOttovanus, and Decembria
I think it is reasonable to assume that God does not demand the impossible. Let us remember the great St. Clare, "When Saint Clare was too ill to attend the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass, the Holy Spirit would project the Holy Mass on the wall of her room so that she could watch it from her bed." If Clare could watch the Mass via "TV" *back in the 13th century* because of her condition, you can too!
Amen, I will say this, you are far more present in that church than the ones who are physically there but whose minds are wandering in so many other places.
As a Biblical Orthodox Christian, which is almost the exact same as the Catholic Church, except we regect the post vatican 2 catholic stuff, because the document formed at the council of trent said that if someone tried to change the tridentine rite, they would loose there apostolic authority.
I loved the paper buddy
God bless you
If you're referring to Quo Primum, that wasn't a conciliar document. That was a Papal bull written in 1570, which is a couple years after the council closed, that promulgated the Tridentine Missal for almost all of the west. Quo Primum isn't binding on anyone today since it was a disciplinary document that was essentially replaced in 1969 by Missale Romanum.
Pope St Paul VI had the authority to allow the changes in the Roman Rite because no Pope can force future Popes to specific prudential judgements like this. Quo Primum also never says that someone loses their Apostolic authority for altering the missal. Instead, it wrote how nobody had the right to deviate from the missal as promulgated by the Supreme Pontiff, and in the list of those who are bound to this decision, it notably leaves out Popes. Also, if what you said was true, then Pope St Pius V excommunicated himself for altering the calender a couple years later. Along with multiple other Popes including Pius XII.
Worth mentioning, the same language of authority and promulgation is used in Quod a nobis, which served the same function with the Roman Breviary. And that didn't stop Pope St Pius X from completely abrogating that same breviary in Divino afflatu.
it litterally says that it is to last in perpetutity and cannot be revoked or changed
Disciplinary canons last until the Roman Pontiff and/or a Council change or abrogate them. A Pope cannot bind another Pope on disciplinary matters.
Attike, Cristero, Evangelium, Ottovanus, and 1 otherSancti Sepulcri
Again, the same wording was used in Quod a nobis and Pius X still abrogated that version of the Roman Breviary. By this same standard, Paul VI had every right to do what he did.
A relevant quote,
The Sovereign Pontiff alone enjoys the right to recognize and establish any practice touching the worship of God, to introduce and approve new rites, as also to modify those he judges to require modification. Bishops, for their part, have the right and duty carefully to watch over the exact observance of the prescriptions of the sacred canons respecting divine worship... The Church is without question a living organism, and as an organism, in respect of the sacred liturgy also, she grows, matures, develops, adapts and accommodates herself to temporal needs and circumstances, provided only that the integrity of her doctrine be safeguarded. This notwithstanding, the temerity and daring of those who introduce novel liturgical practices, or call for the revival of obsolete rites out of harmony with prevailing laws and rubrics, deserve severe reproof.
- Pope Pius XII, Mediator Dei 58-59
Castle Federation, Attike, Cristero, Ottovanus, and 1 otherSancti Sepulcri
"Having thus forbidden to anyone the use of any other, we command that our breviary and form of praying and chanting be kept in all churches throughout the world, monasteries, orders, and places, even exempt, in which the office must, or is wont to be said, according to the usage and rite of the said Roman Church, except the aforesaid institution or custom exceeding two hundred years: declaring that this breviary, at no time, can be changed in whole or in part, that nothing may be added or taken away from it, and that all those who are bound by law or by custom to recite or chant the Canonical Hours*, according to the usage and rite of the Roman Church (the laws having decreed penalties against those who do not say the divine office every day), are now expressly obliged, in perpetuity, to recite and chant the Hours, both day and night, in accordance with the prescription and form of this Roman breviary, and that none of those to which the duty is formally imposed, can satisfy only in this form alone." Quod a nobis 6
Here's the exact text from Quod a nobis. Same Magisterial weight as Quo Primum, and Pius X didn't see it as something that he had no ability to reform and/or abrogate. Thus, Paul VI had the same authority to promulgate the 1970 Roman Missal as he did.
To be consistent, you'd have to say that the changes brought about by Pius X, at the latest, would constitute the Church breaking away from Pius V's commands. Doesn't it seem far more likely that Pius V never intended his specific version of the Roman Missal to be used unaltered for the rest of eternity? Especially given that nobody seems to have believed that to be the case?
Does it seem likely that the Pope would be clear in his words? Yes it does. It litterally says that you cannot change it. And if commonality makes truth, we should all be muhammedins, because they are more common than catholics
It's neither the words nor communality that determines if it can be reformed or not but the magisterial level that proclaimed it. Disciplinary and prudential canons must be obeyed but they are non-definitive acts of the Magisterium and the same authority that proclaimed it can abrogate it as well.
Attike, Ottovanus, and Sancti Sepulcri
how does my flag look
I'd say all the Popes were very clear about what they intended regarding the liturgy. None of them advocated the notion that the Tridentine Missal was irreplaceable or unchangeable. Just picking a couple quotes out of context doesn't change that.
I never made any claim about commonality. Only that nobody took Pius V's words to mean that the missal was untouchable as many seem to think.
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