The European Home Office brings you the full transcripts of the European Electoral Debate, held on the 25th of November at 3.00pm GMT+1 on the #comm-debates channel on Eurocord between Einswenn, Republic of Satherland, and Rivierenland. The transcript was edited removing discord's quotes and tags to facilitate the reading.
The moderators' names will be highlighted in orange, while the candidates' names will be highlighted in blue. Editor's notes will be enclosed between . In the first part of the debate Rivierenland was not present in person and his answers to the questions were reported by Regnum Italiae. Naughty words were censored.
Regnum Italiae: Hello Europeans and welcome to the quasi-monthly electoral debate! This afternoon/morning/evening/night we, me and Feria-Alkaline, will moderate this debate! But letís jump straight in the action and greet our present candidates: Einswenn and Republic of Satherland. Letís also salute Rivierenland, who is not here in person but has provided me nonetheless with his insights!
Republic of Satherland: OwO
Feria-Alkaline: Hi hi!
Einswenn: Hie hie
Regnum Italiae: Good, we are all here!
So, here we will start! We will begin with some opening statements, then with the questions. Finally, we'll see if someone from the public has any questions for our candidates! Are you all ready?
Republic of Satherland: o7
Regnum Italiae: Candidates, if you wish you can make an opening statements for your electors!
Greetings, I'm Rivierenland and I'm running for second deputy commissioner (again)
Einswenn: I have just one small statement which repeats my words from the previous election of Satherland. I believe there should be dynamics in European government and new fresh but trusted faces need to appear more often. And by this I don't mean myself only, but also Riv, who has been running so many times so I believe it has to be his term. Or mine.
Republic of Satherland: Hi! I'm Satherland, and I'm running for reelection to the Commission! For backstory, I've been a resident in Europe since 2017 and I've been an active member of this community since September 2019. It's been a blast over the past three months serving as your Second Deputy Commissioner, and I hope for another great three months! :heartpulse:
Regnum Italiae: Good job everyone!
Let us start with the questions!
So candidates, letís break the ice a bit, Iíd like to ask you what is your vision for the Commissionership? What are the things that you want to accomplish and the principles that will guide you?
I want to finally pass a law or at least contribute something to Europe in a positive way. I will of course try my best to maintain the status quo, however, humans aren't perfect so don't expect me to follow it every second.
Republic of Satherland: Well firstly we need to establish what the Commission really is, and I think it's something people really need to have a grasp on. Commissioners are parliamentary officers whose primary job's vetting new legislation, followed by moderators in charge of RMB moderation. It isn't some kind of position of power and authority, quite the contrary. Commissioners are servants of the region and its inhabitants.
Einswenn: My vision is assistance, help. I see Commissioners as a support team in the government who, beside the fancy polls, also help to make European laws be more precise and actual. More than that I would personally like, if elected, to participate in designing and supporting the brand of Europe within NS realm . We already have quite good featured style and this can be also part of Commissioner duties if they have skills to promote Europe with the power of design
Regnum Italiae: Ok, Feria-Alkaline it's your turn!
Feria-Alkaline: Aye aye, captain!
The Commission are primarily legislative officials, but they also often serve as the face of government. Do you believe that, in that regard, the Commission should collaborate with the Home and Foreign Offices for events and to maintain transparency in the government? Explain.
Yes, I do believe that we as a government should maintain transparency to ensure that the European citizens will maintain a high amount of trust in the government. I would like to see Europe surpass a bar set by most IRL governments in the transparency sector (which isn't that high to pass). As for the events, I also believe that the Commission and Cabinet should cooperate on that as well (although events like NS Eurovision and Sports events are better left organised independently without the aid of government)
Einswenn: I do believe they should collaborate with the rest of the Office because it's all about team work. Being junior government officials, it's still the government and involvement in Home & Foreign affairs sometimes may be essential. Events are our regional future and they require a lot of support from junior fellows.
Republic of Satherland: Of course! The Home and Foreign Offices are just as important as the Commission, if not more, and collaboration between all three branches are essential for Europe to progress forward as a prosperous region. Serving as the Ambassador to The Rejected Realms (TRR) and the Home Undersecretary of Communications, I am an active member in all three branches, and I can ensure the citizens of Europe that in my second term I'll do everything in my power to make that process as harmonious as possible.
Feria-Alkaline: Wonderful responses! Here's the next question!
Europe has more-or-less constantly been at odds with ban evaders; just recently, Slavakino's return sparked up the RMB and Discord. Should we take a harder stance against ban evaders and suspected ban evaders, getting rid of them before they can cause damage? Or should we be lenient and offer second chances, even if we suspect something's up?
I believe that minor offences shouldn't be punished too harshly. I believe the punishment should depend on the severity of the crime (but that principle is already instilled here in Europe so everything is fine). As about Slavakino, he's free to stay if he has shown to Europe that he has changed for the better. If he hasn't, then he should just leave for good (this doesn't only apply to Slava, but also to other people who have committed crimes here, including myself)
Republic of Satherland: Ban evasion is a complex topic. Now I'm sure we can all agree that the puppets of ban evaders should be banned indefinitely. And for these offenders? Well I believe that their bans should be increased proportionally depending on when they decided to ban evade. E.g. If one had 5 days before their ban was up and they evaded it, then their sentence should be increased by another 5 days.
Einswenn: I am extremely pro-harder stance against such individuals and nations. It's the matter of law and order, and if someone disrespects our rules and customs then there cannot be any discussion of niceness and acceptance towards them. Trolls don't change and even if they surprisingly do, the things they did and the words they said are still in their history. And those who could get hurt or harmed by such actions will still be hurt and harmed.
We have to be as strict as possible when it comes to rule breaking and ban evading. Without compromises.
Republic of Satherland: And on leniency? Well, that's subjective, and should be proportional to the crime.
Feria-Alkaline: Final question from my side.
Is there any law you believe needs changing? Alternatively, is there any law you believe we need that we don't have?
I'm currently busy with the Commission Reform Sect 2018 as I try to remove some of the faulty points in it. As for other laws, well, how about I try and close the loopholes in the term limit law, because why not? Į\_(ツ)_/Į
Einswenn: We need to update, clarify and modernise the Criminal law, also due to these events with ban evaders or trolls, such as Docterr or Slavakino. All my concerns face law and order issues, as I mentioned earlier.
Republic of Satherland: The Statutes are fairly comprehensive, but I believe the Criminal Law Act 2019 should be amended to include more offenses, as the current list of offenses and their respective sentence guidelines are no longer broad enough to cover everything it should. Persistent hate speech, baiting, purposefully inciting arguments. These must all be addressed one way or another.
Now I've amended CLA 2019 before in June with the incumbent Home Secretary to include ordinances against perverting the course of justice, and with this proven track record of amending the very bill we need to fix so badly, the citizens of Europe can place their faith in me to do it again.
Einswenn: Although have to agree with Riv about term limits. I would add it's not about quantity. I don't mind certain people to be at the same position several times, but not in a row.
Republic of Satherland: Three terms in a row's the current standard, but would you seek to amend that?
Einswenn: I'd limited it to two in a row
Republic of Satherland: Why so, if the moderators may allow me to ask
Regnum Italiae: Go for it!
Einswenn: All about opportunities for the other regulars or newbies who have already been active enough and can hold the position well enough
Republic of Satherland: You see, here's my issue with that argument. Bear in mind my opposition isn't about reducing the number of consecutive terms. That seems reasonable enough. Most elections we find ourselves without enough candidates running, and active participation in elections is relatively low.
[At this point Riv surprisingly enters the debate]
Rivierenland: Now wait hang on a minute. Nothing is wrong with the current limit. I see no reason to change it to 2
Regnum Italiae: Uh oh plot twist
Einswenn: Yes it's true, that's why I wouldn't limit the overall number of terms, just the terms in a row.
Republic of Satherland: [To Riv] Well, it's our fellow candidates' opinion. Not one I strictly disagree with, but the rationale seems iffy to me.
[To Einswenn] There isn't a limit to the overall number of terms though.
Rivierenland: It also seems iffy to me, but It's his opinion at the end of day and he's entitled to it
Einswenn: [To Sather] I'm not arguing with that
Republic of Satherland: The only limit's the number of consecutive terms, which is 3
Einswenn: And got to be 2 :slight_smile:
In my opinion
Republic of Satherland: [To Riv] Certainly. I don't believe that issue's up for debate.
[To Einswenn] And I respect your opinion, while not explicitly agreeing with it based on your rationale.
Regnum Italiae: If you all have nothing more to say on the matter, I think we can carry on
Republic of Satherland: Of course.
Regnum Italiae: Ok
Good job candidates and good job Feria-Alkaline! Now, itís my turn!
This question is for Einswenn.
You are relatively a newcomer to our political stage, what has brought you to decide to run for the Commissionership? What are your past involvements with European politics?
Einswenn: Oh, thanks. Yes, I am participating in European community life primarily this year only even though I have been in the region from the very foundation of Einswenn. It's not only politically but in general communication as well. I see the progress of European government, I see the involvement and I'd dare to say passion of other officials. It inspires and thus makes me want to be part of it, to help and invest some of my time in this business.
This decision to run was quite spontaneous:
- to have more candidates running
- to be so called fresh face I often mention today
- to run against Satherland (sorry, no offence :D)
- and to endorse Riv in case of failure
Republic of Satherland: I really don't get all this hate toward meÖ
Einswenn: Even though I haven't been involved in previous politics outside of the Governmental polls and silent watch of first laws being passed, I do understand the basics of our politics
We're jealous of the good job you did
Einswenn: I wouldn't call it hate in my case Sather :slight_smile:
Republic of Satherland: I mean last election you claimed that I was both an untrustworthy Thaecian spy and also a pawn of the European establishment!
Einswenn: [To Sather] I don't use that argument now because you claimed to quit Thaecian politics (although I haven't checked if you did, I just trusted your words)
Rivierenland: We all make mistakes in the heat of passion, Sather
Republic of Satherland: Even if I didn't, how does that make me a Thaecian spy?
I was a part of European politics looooong before I even joined Thaecia
Einswenn: Spy hysteria wasn't my invention. My claims were about general involvement in Thaecia more than in Europe and I want to see active European regulars in our government
We all speak about transparency but for some reason it doesn't include being socially active, right?
Republic of Satherland: Does your definition of a European regular exclude me for my Thaecian involvement then
Einswenn: Don't get me wrong, Sather. It excludes you not for that but rather for being NOT involved in European life
Republic of Satherland: [To Einswenn] With all due respect, I am a lot more active than you give me credit for, primarily in government channels. Yes I'm not as active in the RMB, but does that disqualify me from being a European?
Frankly this is rather small-minded.
Einswenn: There are many regulars who has their alts in Thaecia but I see all of them being active in our home region. They all have character and personality, they're fun to see and read, fun to interact with
Republic of Satherland: So you are saying is that not only am I not active, I have no character and personality, am not fun to read, and am not fun to interact with.
Einswenn: RMB is the pillar of activity. Government achievements are cool and stuff, but Europe is a community, which is above being just in the office
You would be fun to read if you actually posted
Republic of Satherland: Eins I have been consistently working to the bone for Europe long before you returned.
And I will continue to serve this region long after you're gone
Einswenn: I don't ever intend to say you have nothing done for Europe though
Regnum Italiae: Candidates, I think we are going a bit off-road.
Republic of Satherland: But you claim that I'm not a regular for the sole reason that I am not consistently on the RMB
[To Regnum Italiae] Well this has become an American debate
Regnum Italiae: No plox
Einswenn: I said everything I wanted to say about this matter, dear moderators :slight_smile: I stand by my opinion
Republic of Satherland: Well frankly I find your view on me insulting, but I'll drop it for the sake of the debate.
I really don't remember Nov getting this much hate, and he was the delegate of an entirely separate region
Regnum Italiae: Good, let's move on now
This question is for Rivierenland.
In the past you served as Commissioner for a short time, following a heated campaign, during that time there were many conflicts between you and some members of the establishment as well as with some members of our community. What were your impressions then and what are them now?
Rivierenland: I have had arguments with so many people that I have lost count /s. But seriously, I still owe an apology to Gor Kebab/Nacho for stuff I said to him as well as taking his job without earning it. To the others who I also clashed with back then, I apologise. I mean, they're all good people and I treated them harshly. As for the trial I had to go through in January about my terrible behaviour, I acknowledge that I have behaved poorly to newcomers. Although, I am still a bit pissed off about the fact that the government used two pieces of 'evidence' which weren't even real (I was accused of telling a person to leave calling them uninteresting via tg's whilst I never did that. Also, the same person accused me of being a dickhead to him whilst the only thing I said was who Laver was. That person (not Laver) was not to be trusted and yet the government trusted him as far as to use his accusations as real evidence and for that I have only one answer to government: you should be ashamed of yourselves).
Regnum Italiae: Nice!
Rivierenland: I will add, I am aware that I still carry a certain stigma which could scare off potential voters
Regnum Italiae: Good job indeed
Time for the final question! This one is for Republic of Satherland.
Youíre probably the most experienced among the candidates, about that: what are the experiences that enriched you the most and which ones do you think make you a better candidate than the others?
Republic of Satherland: I mean it's no question that I am the most qualified to serve the citizens of Europe given my track record, and while people may feel that means little for the sole reason that I'm not active in the RMB, I beg to differ. Over the past year I've experienced a lot in Europe, and ultimately it has made me stronger as an individual. On the experiences that have enriched me the most? Well one of them has to be my drafting of legislation, a core part of the job scope of being a Commissioner. Drafting and passing the Due Process Act as the first non-government member to do so was truly an interesting process for me, as was seeing how the approval process played out as an outsider.
My other great experience was organising and revitalising the European electoral debate, first in May with yourself, Feria, Sparta and Eritei, and later with you and Nov as the candidates and myself and Feria as the moderators. Organising the time, date, lobbying for IA to create this channel, and logging all the responses was truly tiring but ultimately enjoyable experience, and a reason why I actively contribute in the Home Office and to the region as a whole, albeit not in the most obvious way.
Einswenn: May I ask Satherland a question about the matter?
Regnum Italiae: Go for it
Einswenn: You are involved in our politics at several levels, not only in Commissionership. If you do not hold this office job, can you still be involved in politics, law editions etc?
Republic of Satherland: Always. Unless I have irl matters to attend to, I'll always actively contribute to Europe in any way I can, whether it's as the Ambassador to TRR or the Undersecretary of Communications, or through my writing post in EuroNews.
Einswenn: So why to run for the third time now? I don't put any aggression in this question, just wondering.
Republic of Satherland: Define a third time, because I'm failing to comprehend that
Einswenn: I may be wrong, apologies if I am. This is your second term now, right?
Republic of Satherland: This is the fourth time I'm running for the Commission, and the second term I'm seeking, so I don't know where this number's coming from.
No, it's my first term.
Einswenn: Okay, then I am sorry
Republic of Satherland: Eins, if you're gonna run for the Commission, you need to at least get the term numbers of your potential predecessor right...
Einswenn: The core of my question is still "why"
If you're involved in the government anyway
[To Sather] And I don't think it's an essential criteria :slight_smile:
Republic of Satherland: Because I still feel I'm the best suited among the current field of candidates, and I'm the most qualified for the job scope. Which is the vetting of legislation, and moderation. Apart from that I do genuinely enjoy engaging the community with polls, which apart from Maarten's inhuman activity rates are persistently more engaging than my colleagues' throughout my term.
[To Einswenn] It's not a good look when you can't.
Regnum Italiae: I think this is not a matter for us to discuss much further
Let's go with the questions from the public!
Einswenn: How would you expect others to be more experienced if you don't let them become so?
Sorry, mods, no more questions from me in the matter
Regnum Italiae: Candidates! Order!
Rivierenland: C'mon public. Show us what you got!
Republic of Satherland: Eins, I was heavily involved in the region for a good 8 months, learning the ins and outs of the government before I even dared to seriously campaign for Commissioner.
Einswenn: You didn't answer it
Republic of Satherland: Because that's called being prepared
Rivierenland: Sather, Regy said 'Order!'
Time for the public questions
Regnum Italiae: Candidates! Order!
Republic of Satherland: I did. You should gain far more experience before daring.
Republic of Satherland: This is textbook stuff Eins, but of course, let's hear it from Europe
Regnum Italiae: Don't get me angry!
Questions from the public..
Regnum Italiae: From Diophantine
Question for every candidate: Could you name at least one thing that you respect about other candidates?
Republic of Satherland: This is gonna be interesting XD
Einswenn: Riv: enthusiasm regardless of the history
Republic of Satherland: experience
Rivierenland: About Republic of Satherland: That he can juggle multiple high ranking positions at the same time shows that he has a strong mindset
About Einswenn: His enthusiasm here in Europe as well as his good character
Republic of Satherland: I strongly respect Riv. He's put a lot of effort in rebuilding his image, and deep down he's a generally good person. Eins, well he's ambitious and he's hopeful, I'll give him that, but he doesn't have anywhere near the experience required for the Commission, which I admit Riv has.
Regnum Italiae: Good
From Gor Kebab
My question is: The RMB has been seeing more spam than usual in recent weeks. This has caused regulars to often complain about the spam publicly. Will you be doing anything to hopefully decrease the amount of spam that we see on the RMB?
Einswenn: I'd suggest some changes in our ModCom to act with less bureaucracy and more authority over [at least] suppressing posts.
Rivierenland: Commissioner ofc don't have the power to banject spammers so I wouldn't be able to do that. However, if I'd see a spammer, then I would warn them as soon as possible as well as report it to Modcom
Republic of Satherland: Ah, the age old issue of spam. There's never an easy answer to it, because it's always a case-by-case basis. This isn't something that can be solved with legislation. Obviously ModCom needs to respond faster. As the only major government official in my time zone (UTC +8), I have been more proactive against spam during hours where most of ModCom are asleep, as they're mostly in EST. If I were to have another replace me I'd sincerely hope that they'll be able to be active during the hours I've given desperate coverage to.
Regnum Italiae: Nice
From Gor Kebab
To all: There has been some talks of introducing permabans to Europe for repeat offenders and all serious offenders. Are you supportive of such measure?
Republic of Satherland: In full support, but it has to be in writing. When re-elected I'll look into incorporating such ordinances in CLA 2019.
Regnum Italiae: Edited: To all: There has been some talks of introducing permabans to Europe for repeat offenders and or serious offenders. Are you supportive of such measure?
Einswenn: I entirely support permabans. I don't believe in fairy tales about people to learn how to behave after being banned or warned a thousand times. Justice is justice.
Republic of Satherland: I'll say this response [his previous one] still applies.
Rivierenland: Depends on the severity of the crime. Now I know I'm going to contradict myself, but I believe that we should treat offenders with a three strikes and you're out system. With the third strike, a meeting should be held by modcom to discuss whether a permaban should take place or not
Einswenn: I like the idea of three strikes
Republic of Satherland: It should be subjective depending on the crime, and what constitutes a strike.
Einswenn: Agree, the strike would be the most complex thing here I assume. Because one warning ≠ strike
Rivierenland: Agreed, cases of spam spread by months should be punished less severely than constant hate speech
Republic of Satherland: Take Slavakino for example. He has repeatedly flame baited LGBTQ people, in particular trans people, but he has only been banned once. So, what counts as a strike then
Regnum Italiae: From The Oriental Empire
I kinda want to know what you all think warrants a permaban
Nice job candidates
Einswenn: Nothing warrants it. It requires permanent RMB watch.
Rivierenland: Pretty heinous crimes repeated over and over again. Although the best case scenario is that wouldn't need permabans
Republic of Satherland: Slavakino clearly counts. He's made a deliberate effort to demean people simply for who they are. And then there's Kirostan, who made disgusting sexual comments toward minors as an adult. Clear permaban. And his actions after impersonating a Spanish communist from Bolivia to skirt justice? Another clear permabannable offense.
Rivierenland: [Quoting himself] Also, I believe the permabanned should be able to make an appeal after a certain amount of time
Republic of Satherland: Perhaps after a year, no shorter
Einswenn: [To Riv] Goes against the "perma" part.
Rivierenland: I was thinking 6 months but ok
[To Einswenn] Here in Holland you can also appeal life sentences after 25 years. Doesn't mean you're getting your appeal accepted
Republic of Satherland: [To Einswenn] Which is why if we are to incorporate such an appeals system, a year at the very least before an appeal's in order. But I'm on the fence on this one
Einswenn: [To Riv] Even if you ban evade Holland?
Republic of Satherland: This is getting off kilter
Einswenn: I have no more comments on the matter
Regnum Italiae: From Gor Kebab
To all: Slavakino, a person used a lot as a subject in this debate, came back early from his ban. His ban was lifted early because of his mistake. Although this wasn't discussed with others. What are your thoughts on his ban being lifted early because of a mistake he made?
Republic of Satherland: I think he should be muted for the four days he should've waited before he returned regardless. It's only fair for the victims
Einswenn: All I think about this case is to ban him again after very first strike which, in this very case, = 1 warning.
Republic of Satherland: If I had it my way he'd never even graze the RMB again for the despicable things he's done.
Rivierenland: Aight listen, I know he made a small lapse in calculation but a ban evasion is a ban evasion. Sure, if he did it on purpose he should have been kicked for longer, but it seems he made a mistake, which in my opinion warrants him to be muted until the end of his ban
Although, I'd rather not have him here
Einswenn: He already hinted his beliefs haven't changed which prepares us to see the basic rulebreaking quite soon, I suppose
Republic of Satherland: He is a truly disgusting individual who relishes in the torment of LGBTQ people, and he clearly hasn't learned his lesson because after his ban he went on to say even worse things in the forums and got banned there too. He told me a month ago in the ELP server that his views not only haven't changed, but are even worse now.
He's too dangerous to be left to his devices in Europe
Rivierenland: In that case we should put him on high scrutiny. If he does his usual sh*t again then he should be instantly banned for good
Regnum Italiae: I want just to notice that the ban was actually meant expire on the 21st so he was not wrong
Rivierenland: But still, his opinions are too dangerous to be published on the RMB or anywhere else for that matter
He's a danger to Europe
Republic of Satherland: It's less his opinions and more how he uses them to deliberately bait and torment LGBTQ folk in Europe
Rivierenland: That as well
Einswenn: This may encourage other like-minded people to do so
Rivierenland: This seems like a baby-hitler moment. We need to kill off those opinions before it's too late
Republic of Satherland: The last time he did it the entire RMB rallied against him, switching all their flags to pride flags and shutting him up. That was a good moment.
Rivierenland: That is a piece of European history
Republic of Satherland: Truly is, fighting with our fellow friends against toxicity
Regnum Italiae: I think we have said enough on this matter
I do have a question for you all tho
You are calling to give more moderation powers to the Commission, but the 'Communication Authority' needed to suppress posts also give access to mass-telegrams and recruitment. If you were to actually write the piece of law needed how would you avoid the possibility of abusing of this kind of power? Shutting down political opponents and mass-telegramming propaganda quickly come to my mind.
Republic of Satherland: I'm not in favour of giving Commissioners communication authority. It floated around in my head for a bit when Apab first proposed it, but overall it's not required in the job scope, and as you said, such authority's prone to abuse.
Rivierenland: I want to only work on giving comms authorities to commissioners. As for that, if someone is abusing their tg powers, then I believe they should be stripped of that for a month
Einswenn: I see it as a personal responsibility of the Commissioners to avoid power abuse. In case if this needs to be regulated, then there is sort of an internal crime law needed to explain the Head of the government's right to resign the power abuser
Regnum Italiae: Ok
One final question from The New Nordic Union
What's your coolest poll idea to get Europe talking?
Rivierenland: 'Do you like Eurovision?' We've had many sports polls and I think it's for music to grab the spotlight for once
(Yeah, I don't have any other idea's at the moment)
Einswenn: Call me greedy, but I wouldn't announce it beforehand :nerd:
Republic of Satherland: Oh I'm keeping some those close to my chest XD But I have a poll idea for everyone's favourite genre of movie which I am sure will cause quite a ruckus in the RMB :laughing:
Regnum Italiae: I guess we can call an end, that was actually very fun and HOT!
Candidates, you can give your final statements to your electors now!
Rivierenland: Have a nice night and hopefully I will see you voting for me at the polls
Einswenn: Thank you, Riv and Sather. I wish us all good luck and let Europe cast their votes
Republic of Satherland: Well, you've heard all of us. I do sincerely hope that you'll choose me, but if you don't, it's alright. As long as the democratic process is adhered to and the community's wishes are fulfilled, I'm happy. Vote with your heart, vote with your minds, vote with your conscience, cos that's the most beautiful right you have in our great region.
Regnum Italiae: Europeans, here we are at the end, it has been a nice although tiresome ride! I want to thank Feria-Alkaline for having co-moderated with me and our awesome debaters Republic of Satherland, Einswenn, and Rivierenland! Thanks also to everyone from the public for the questions and your attention! See you next month! Peace out :3