«12. . .231232233234235236237. . .295296»
People don't like having fun these days :/
Well Javer unfortunately statistics are against you and it actually DOES cost a lot more. At least in a free society. If you are advocating a society of unfair trials, extremism, and brutality from a police and correctional service then we will no longer have a free society. But that's another story all together and that I could never agree with under any circumstance.
I'd like to see some statistics/proof from a reliable source showing where it costs more to execute someone than it does it house someone in prison for 30 years. Also hanging is very cheap, and it's humane.
I agree.
I promised myself I wouldn't get involved but I will speak as a neutral party. I would like to see both sides, those against the death penalty for economic reasons to provide actual statistics from a credible source IE The US government or the State Governments of Texas/Florida which are both states that execute more individuals than most, if not all other states for these statistics, and also those for the death penalty for economical reasons to provide statistics to prove their side of the story with again, statistics from reliable sources. Otherwise we are going to sit here and yell at each about stuff that without actual proof behind our words, makes us look ridiculous and like we don't know what we are talking about.
Public executions wouldn't be so bad.
Making an arena for death penalty people to fight? For starters, we don't have that many people on death row, which would make creating an arena for this a huge waste of taxpayer dollars.
Secondly, what are you thinking that's just cruel. Just because they're criminals doesn't mean we should force them to kill for our sick and twisted amusement.
Do you want public executions for the entertainment, or to help people understand the justice system? If it's the former then I'm certainly glad they aren't public at the moment. Enforcing justice should not be something to take sick pleasure out of, but rather a necessary part of our society.
Here are Americas two most credible economy media outlets explaining how it cost more:
http://www.forbes.com/sites/kellyphillipserb/2011/09/22/death-and-taxes-the-real-cost-of-the-death-penalty/
http://www.economist.com/node/13279051
Here's a state by state economic breakdown of how it cost each state more every year:
http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/costs-death-penalty
Yes it's a website against the death penalty but they back up every since information they give with a credible source.
I cannot provide one made by the Texas or Florida government because they are embarrassed so they release no information about it and refuse to acknowledge the truth so they can pretend they are protecting citizens through sensationalism but the last article provides a breakdown of each proven budget to still prove the point.
Also I bring back the point that that many innocents are executed and it does absolutely nothing to prevent crime.
For proof here's a breakdown of violent crimes in each state:
http://www.census.gov/statab/ranks/rank21.html
Here's how many executions have taken place per state since 1976
http://www.mindfully.org/Reform/2006/Death-Penalty-Execution1jan06.gif
See a pattern? No? That's because there is none.
Also generally those with severe mental conditions and lower incomes are the ones who end up there, not because they commit crimes more frequently but because they cannot afford or understand the complicated legal procedure.
So it actually cost A LOT more, has absolutely NO effect deterring violent crime, oppressed specific people in society, and is an outdated source of punishment used mainly by extremely closed Totalitarian societies like Iran and China... and the USA.
If you don't trust forbes and economist here's the most right wing news outlet in America also backing that up.
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/03/27/just-cost-death-penalty-killer-state-budgets/
My own personal opinion on criminals: the more violent you are the more of a slave you will be worked, petty criminals would be treated more like people, murderers, rapists, mass murderers, and those who do acts like such for the sake of it, should be worked as slaves.
Why should they keep their "Humanity" when they took that very right from a multitude of others?
http://www.criminaljusticedegreehub.com/how-much-does-it-cost-to-execute-a-death-row-inmate/
Actually, most costs associated with executions are due to lengthy appeals, which cost money. The vast majority of the money it costs to execute a prisoner on death row is used to pay legal attorney's for their work in appeal cases, which depending on the state can take anywhere from 10-20 years. SO the physical execution of a prisoner costs only a few thousand dollars (for the drugs and personnel). If you want to reduce the price it costs to execute an inmate, you should shorten the appeal time. It should not take someone 20 years to get their trial looked at again, and all the money they waste during those 20 years come straight from the taxpayers' pockets. It's basically running around in circles, burning tax dollars and extending the inevitable.
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/24/nyregion/citys-annual-cost-per-inmate-is-nearly-168000-study-says.html?_r=0
Also it was reported from the Independent Budget Office, which audited the NYC Penal system, that each inmate costs approximately $168,000 to house 1 inmate per year.
Also just because your poor does not give someone an excuse for not knowing/comprehending the law. A person in a stressed financial situation is not forced to break a law, especially one which will result in capital punishment. The same is to be said for mentally handicapped persons. If they are incompetent enough that they cannot be safe around themselves/others, than they deserve to be locked up in a institution which will keep themselves and others safe. Section 2.02(9) of the United States Moral Penal Code states: "knowledge that an activity is unlawful is not an element of an offense unless the statute creating the offense specifically makes it one." Virtually all states that adopt the Model Penal Code do not modify this provision.
Finally, if you would like to read about the positive correlation between the death penalty and murder, that is, when the death penalty is implemented, the number of murders are decreased, then you can read this well written and published paper which shows, after careful examination and data analysis, that the death penalty does in fact deter violent murders. Article: http://deathpenalty.procon.org/sourcefiles/The%20Deterrent%20Effect%20of%20Capital%20Punishment.pdf
OOC: I really am enjoying the debate :)
Hey Guys
HELLO!
Post self-deleted by Vaculatestar64.
Post self-deleted by Vaculatestar64.
Campaign Speech on Leadership
Fellow citizens of this wonderful region. I come to you today to lay out exactly what I plan to put out their in terms of leadership if I am given the great honor and privilege to serve as Grand Moff for the term.
"The greatest among you shall be your servant."
-Matthew 23:11 English Standard Version
This is what I will take into the term. I will be the people's servant in all things. If public opinion sways strongly against an action I will not hesitate to admit that I was wrong and reverse course in order to follow the will of the people.
Now in terms of running the Moff Council I will take the following idea into office
A.C.T or
Activity, Creativity, and Trust.
Activity
I plan to have an active cabinet this term. Unfortunately many of our Moffs in our regions history have been inactive and useless. This is something that I will refuse to stand for. If they become inactive for a period of greater than ten days with no word to either myself or the Emperor I will discuss with the Emperor the possibility of replacing him/her as soon as possible.
We will work to come up with new and innovative approaches to problems that the region faces throughout the term. We won't go about trying to reinvent the wheel every time a small thing appears, but for major issues where conventional approaches do not work we will not go about banging our heads against the wall trying the same thing over and over again.
Trust
This is where I will use this with both the Moff Council and the general citizenry of the region. If I feel that myself and the region cannot trust a member of the Council to act in the best interests of the region and a private conversation cannot resolve this, I will talk to the Emperor about replacing them with someone that can be trusted.
I would now like to challenge my opponent, Alagaeia, to a debate.
2 days 18 hours ago: The Community of Ithorian Herdships ceased to exist. WTF?
It happens :P
Hello. I am an ambassador for The Neo Sith Empire. Our once great region has fallen on hard times and has been reduced to nine nations. By befriending The New Galactic Empire, I hope that we can once again rise to our former glory.
Best wishes,
Ambassador The dozen-and-two avengers
PS: This is not a recruitment message.
Sure the amount of time of appeals needs to be shortened and the most obvious quick way to do that would be to abolish the death penalty. Unless you are suggesting that the people do not deserve an appeal. Then you are dealing with a sick mess of taking away basic human rights, dismantling a structured judicial system, turning into a police state, and executing innocent people. To put more people on death row would simply clog up the system even more.
Actually the best way to speed up the appeal system would be to not lock away every single person for as long as possible for the most petty of crimes causing the highest incarceration rate in the entire world because prisons are generally controlled by corporations at the moment that force prisoners to work for only 25 cents an hour so they do not have to pay regular people who do not want the jobs to begin with minimum wage. (But that's another conversation all together.)
Taking that idea aside the only way obvious to speed up the appeal system would be to abolish the death penalty all together.
I don't think you quite understood my point about low income/low IQ. I am not saying they do not deserve it (In the end nobody does because it is just plain immoral, no matter if it comes from a side people believe are 'good' or 'evil'. That comes down to the argument if 'an eye for an eye' really works which has been debated for thousands of years. Personally I am part of the 'eye for an eye' is bad side.) What I am saying is people with low income or low IQ are generally the ONLY ones (I am sure you can point to a couple of exceptions but generally still, the ONLY ones) that are put on death row and in the end receive the death penalty in America. Basically if you are rich you deserve to live.
Reading that article, it was a good read thank you, one thing I found unfair about that comparison is it took every state and averaged it out. The numbers were actually fairly close to each other but it did not take population in accordance. Flordia does the most 2nd executions yet they have a much higher murder rate. DC has one of the highest violent crime rates yet does have capitol punishment. Florida has a population of 19, DC .6 million. Hypothetically by numbers, if Florida was broken up into smaller states and DC amalgamated with let's say Maryland who abolished the death penalty today then the rates would change dramatically so it is unfair to compare them like that. With that said I still see very little pattern.
(OOC yes Javer, its a good talk :) )
Oh vac I commend you for your timing in that challenge. Il accept of course although I recommend we do so on the forum and not interrupt this nice debate anymore :D
IM BACK muahaahahaa
hey clone troopers, welcome back
Welcome back!!!
You should come join the forum :D we have a competition starting up right away.
So...I'm top 10% of the World for Most Devout. What does that mean?
How do you expect to return your region to glory by "befriending" us?
«12. . .231232233234235236237. . .295296»
Advertisement
