The Isles of Liberty

1. I'm tired of this bullsh!t about me abusing my power. I ddin't abuse my power you dweeb. Hell I wasn't even unshackled. I could approve citizenship, eject non-citizens, update the WFE, and run for SC. Thats honestly it. Really, read the original Constitution. I was in check, your goal more or less was to reduce me to a withering pile of ash whose only right was to remain inside the region. If it were your way I probably couldn't even eject people without Senate approval. I'm not your d@mn slave.

2. The reason why I have a hard time standing you is because you base your assumptions and opinions on your own flimsy perceptions. Your dedication to holding someone back you disagree with, even to the extent your willing to basically attack them if they open a new region. What would you do? Come to the region and shout about how terrible I am? Try and remove me from power? Is that it? Is that your ultimate goal? Your only problem with me was that I ejected G-TEch and upheld the President. Go ahead and attempt to twist my words. Convince yourself of the lies that I was the ultimate bad guy, the power hungry tyrant who wanted to crush all opposition. Wait, you've already convinced yourself of that. I am not the tyrant. Hell, my power was relatively constrained in the first place, but you are so blinded by hatred of who I am that you cannot conceive of an instant where that is true, yet it is everywhere. I refused to be apart of the Senate, I refused the position of High Justice, I was the one who insisted the Delegate approve embassies not he Founder. All I did was jointly approve citizens, recruit, open negotiations, and eject non-citizens. What part of that is criminal? What part of that is ridiculous? You are so convinced that I am such a terrible leader that it seems your entire tenure is devoted to attacking me. It doesn't go just so far as to disagree with me or oppose me or recruit against me, but your dedication goes as far as to make sure that if I ever open a region that I cannot succeed. Is that your goal? Because if it is, and I open this region, you sure as hell will not be able to waltz right in here.

4. Your comparing me to the President of the US? Your absurd. First of all, ITS A GAME, IM NOT ENDING PEOPLES LIVES BY CLOSING A REGION. and if your that upset that a region closes that your life feels to have ended then you have a sad life. Being a Founder and ending a region isn't like dropping nukes on your own nation. Founders and President are apples and oranges. Confrontation? We had an Imperial Party and a GOP entirely supported by me, which means it wasn't very powerful. I had a hard time even getting one GOP candidate into office because the Imperial oligarchy practically forced others out.

I did not violate liberty. It is always up to democratic vote on whether to open or close a region they didn't create. Its like the UN forcing Yugoslavia to be a country, it doesn't work. I didn't violate anyone's liberty, you just feel that way because you didn't get what you wanted so you decided to cry about it. Hell, you only began fighting for it when it was disappearing, you took it for granted. Maybe if you would've responded to my pleas of help in growth the region would've survived. Maybe I wouldn't of closed it. But no one gave a sh!t about that. You were being a lazy prick who wanted to pooch off what I was doing. And your satisfied with 120 nations? So at that number you just quit recruiting? If your not growing your shrinking. If your not expanding your shrinking. And if you aren't trying your failing. Thats your essential problem, oh and your grudge holding. Get over yourself

Side note, I called you a kid because your attitude is more or less very childish. Holding grudges, being lazy, not wanting to work, whining about what you lost, etc. Therefore, you are a kid

1. As to your suggestion that I should read the original constitution I can't :P You kinda barred me from it to be honest, you know that whole "criminal classification" you put me in ;) But as for abusing your power, I know what powers you had Tuna. And there was a lot, a LOT of leeway. Too much it seems at times, but I digress. And Tuna, am I a withering pile of ash in the RoL? Not really, I still help, contribute, but I'm not above other people. Also I would not like the Senate to have the power to eject people either, I suppose they could if they passed a law allowing it....hmmm, actually that gives me an idea in RoL, should prevent that. Thanks ^_^ But no only the Supreme Court should be able to do it for punishments. Of course I was completely for emergency powers in times of crisis (like an invasion) which I kept in the RoL. And no you're not my slave :P I don't know where that came from to be honest.

2. Tuna I would not come to a region where you are at and yell and shout about how terrible you are. I would likely work as a counter-point to you in the region, perhaps run against you in elections, and so on. Essentially inform people of your past. If they have an issue with what you did, well that's their issue. You aren't worried about how your actions might reflect negatively upon you, are you Tuna? :P Can't imagine why, I thought you'd be fully prepared to invite me to these regions and dare me to try and watch you defend yourself proudly to the citizens of this new region. You ejecting G-Tech, not the worst thing in the world. You were within your powers, and you acted as you thought you should. However when the entire region except you, cried out for a reversal of this decision, which you could grant by all means, you refused. It's one thing when you take an action, good or bad, and people don't like it. It's another when you refuse to change it when everyone else wants you to. No one's perfect Tuna, we all make mistakes. I make em quite a bit, but you gotta be willing to compromise, perhaps you don't approve his citizenship, but you could have let him back into the region for discourse. And you stated, quite repeatedly, that you would not do so nor ever relent. No real compromise possible there. I never said you were strictly criminal Tuna :P The courts refused to figure that part out :P And you not taking an active part of politics is fine Tuna, I would not have had an issue if you did or not. And your power was vague Tuna, there were somethings, as you mentioned, that were specific, like open negotiations that were outlined specifically, but others were left very much open to you to do, or not to do. And that is never a good idea, too much vagueness, too much chance for abuse. You also keep going back to the criminal aspect Tuna, I don't consider you a criminal, like I said the courts need to decide that, not I, and we never got those resolved, so I'm inclined to believe in innocence. And your powers were at times ridiculous, such as ejecting any non-citizen, which is SO incredibly vague because it should be only one way, eject all non-citizens or none. Because by leaving that vague you could essentially eject everyone not a citizen, and there were quite a few personalities in the region that were not citizens. That leaves it up for abuse. It's why for example, an immigration minister can't simply decide who he's gonna deport and not, as he desires, because they aren't officially citizens. He has to back it as to why, make a case, and usually get a court ruling. Also Tuna I would not say you're a terrible leader, I was never in the region when you lead it. I can't recall the president at the time (you and your blocking me from the forum and all :P ) but I would say he was a terrible leader at the time. You were likely a bad caretaker, after all the region is dead :P But not a leader, I've not seen you in that position as of yet. Oh and why couldn't you succeed if I was there Tuna? What power would I have except that of an ordinary citizen? Let's face it Tuna, I'm active, vocal, and dedicated, but it's not like I could destroy you with words, defend yourself, let people decide for themselves. Having opposition is good in region Tuna, lets things thrive through discourse and discussion. And besides Tuna not allowing me in just means I would have to go about it in a roundabout way, it would still happen, I just don't like subterfuge :P So I'd just have to contact nations within the region one by one and open a discussion with them that way.

4. Not sure what happened to 3....I wouldn't say it's like comparing apples and oranges exactly :P It's just used as imagery, to make a comparison. And if ejected nearly everyone and making it so no one can enter is not what a nuke does...well I don't know what nukes do :P Yes the GOP was supported by you, but most of its members were struggling to stay active. And to be fair the GOP almost had a Senate majority there in the 3 run off election between Mik and someone else, can't recall who. Just the GOP could not generate a Presidential candidate. But as I stated I hoped to form a new political party once the election season was over and build it up over time. Likely wouldn't have gotten as big as the Imperials, but between the PC and GOP we likely woulda provided a good counter balance.

5. I would say forcing everyone out of a place is violating Liberty :P And you're right, it is always up to a democratic vote whether to open or close a region, which is why I'm sad you didn't do it. I certainly did it when the RoL was created, most wanted a new place, so I did the work and there it is. I don't lay claim on it mind you, it's the people's, not mine. Tuna of course I only began fighting for it when it was disappearing, I was there for a week! And within that week I could see, as could many others, that the region was great! It's really hard to find a good region, and I like to keep it up when I find em. And the region was growing Tuna....very well in fact. Numbers was unimportant as there was a good upswing, there had been no downswing yet. And the constitution did require that all government members recruit, another area left vague as it didn't say how many or it what time frame, but it was there. Just no one it seems brought any government members to court over it. I would have thought Tuna you would bring bringing people to court all the time over it with how you go on about numbers. I certainly brought a lot of people to court in the RoL when they don't meet their quota. It gets them going, even if they grumble about it. 120 nations? I wouldn't quit recruiting, I would reduce the burden to a more manageable level, you can't ever stop recruiting as nations CTE and you always want some people coming in. But you don't need to do it at break neck speed if you hit a good number. Otherwise you burn yourself out. Lol Tuna, you seem to harbor some resentment there :P

Holding grudges is a fact of life, everyone does in some form or another, whether you admit it or not ;) Mine are just less important. Also I'm not lazy Tuna, I'm maintaining a 4.1/4.3 grade point average in University, doing exams, building a region, attempting to manage political offices, recruit, and talk to you ;) For a game that I essentially get nothing out of, it's a fair bit. Though I will admit I do pine after what I have lost, most people do, looking back on the good ol days and what they once had. It's the human condition. Might also have something to do with nostalgia, but I digress.

Awww dwindle! I like em! And I don't need an invitation Tuna :P I keep a look out on all my old regions in hope they come back one day, this one is no different. And I really don't see how I could stop you from growing a region Tuna :P I would very much keep you in check the next time around ;) You can trust me on that :D Also I really don't know how you assume I could destroy you....

Lol Tuna I'm not a raider, I never particularly cared for the idea. I've been an imperialist, where I was part of a delegation invited to regions to help bring numbers back up as an official colony (ya know recruiting, getting the word out, that sort of thing), but I've never raided. I'm more of a defender, though it's been years since I've done that. But no Tuna I would not "attack" in that sense against anyone. That and I really don't know anyone who would do it to be honest (the ol GRA was strict defender only, raiders were quite shunned). As being happy with stationary numbers, I would say yes, as long as the activity is there. Like in the IoL we were around 100 nations, but we had around over dozen on the forums that were at least fairly active, and 5-6 that were super active, which is a good community. I've been in regions with 200 people in the region and only a few on the forums, which meant little activity as a whole. So I'm fine if the numbers are stagnant (generally not with declining) if we got active people. Besides slow recruiting to maintain stagnant numbers will bring in the new blood every now and again, which is always good. But people don't care if they don't recruit Tuna, you can contribute in other ways to a region then recruiting.

You really should have consulted us Tuna, that's the main part that irks many. This region was a functional democracy and that democracy was avoided in what was, in truth, the most important decision of the region's history. You kicking everyone out without saying anything wouldn't have been a very big breach of liberty after the closing of the region, and kicking them out. That's like the President going on the TV to tell them, that's he's ending the country, then doing it. Still blew up the country in the end, still lost many people. Once again I'm happy you told them of the RoL, I just wish I didn't have to make the RoL in the first place :P Hmmm and I hate to break it to ya, a dictator would do those things if it benefit him :P And it did Tuna. Increasing numbers, abusing powers, opening embassies, and so on. Dictators, monarchs, strong men, they all do that Tuna, because it benefits them. Leading from strength is better then leading from weakness ;)

Eh it's quite possible Tuna, I didn't have much of a chance ya know :P The region kinda exploded pretty quick :P And I've heard the stories about the LI, and I've heard what everyone has said. It's quite true he was quite a tyrant, but I never said there weren't varying degrees of course. There are those who make rash decisions, then there are those who boot people out, close regions, etc. Saying you are less of a dictator then your predecessor helps sure, but that's like saying Kim Jung-Un is less of a dictator then his father, still is sure, but to a lesser extent.

Ehhh that's debatable Tuna, I wish I could see the old constitution (wish I wrote that down somewhere) but going from memory a rejection of citizenship does not equate banishment from the region. The constitution gave you the ability to reject non-citizens as you wished. It did not say "If not approved as citizen he/she must be ejected from the region." That's where the constitution was vague. And you are quite right, Auru could certainly deny his citizenship, but as I've stated before another President could approve it. As well I was bringing the President up on charges in the court when you closed the region :P But it's fine to be "loyal" or whatever it was you were doing, I have no qualms on that. To be honest I don't know where you were going with that comment....

I would disagree with you Tuna on those points. While the Founder has the ability, if the founder were to CTE it would no longer have those abilities. Founderless regions can work very well at that as they are more focused since the Founder cannot protect them. As well the Founder can give up his nation to the region so that it is controlled by a group of trusted citizens so that there is no one founder, but it is only a tool. So laws can be created to restrict "founder" power, regions can exist without the need for a founder, and so on.

And I don't care whatever your reasons are, being selfish in forcibly closing a region means that you are a dictator/tyrant with regards to power. Sure RL can be a bitch, and perhaps you have to leave NS due to a death in the family, or you are struggling to meet ends meat, or whatever. Life happens, and everyone understands. So the founder leaves, CTEs, whatever. The region would go on however and would face new challenges. If you had done that, everyone would have been quite content to move onwards. But yes, taking power into your own hands, avoiding the free and democratic government system that was set up and simply making a non-reversible decision to close the region you essentially did remove all laws and protection from the region and took it into your own hands ultimate power. Your decision stands Tuna because you are a dictator in the truest sense of the word.

And Tuna, no one said you couldn't be a dictator who simply ignores people, laws, and popular support when he so chooses. You were the big bad dictator who liked to play nice but willfully ignored the masses when you so chose because you had the biggest gun. It happens all the time in RL and NS, and you used it as well. The President rejected G-Tech because you told him your fabricated story and "deleted" any possible evidence you could use. That's like going to court saying someone wrote a note threatening to kill you, but your burned the note so that no one could see it. It just doesn't add up. Add in that Auru was bum fracking useless as a President who simply took you at your word and was barely active to even give a decent response to people asking him for his own input and we have incompetence matched up with selfishness. As well when the US rejects citizenship the individual is allowed to appeal the decision, and can even take it to the courts if necessary. There isn't just one person with ultimate power, there are checks and balances. And by "raising hell" you meaning having a discussion about the matter like a rational adult? I could see why that would get him kicked out.

I follow your points Tuna, they are just extremely weak and you're unable to really back them up :P And once again, you choose to ignore the populace for your own selfish purposes. We all know of the arguments you were having and in fact were losing with G-Tech.

You forgot the Dictators who ignore everyone else and who do only what they want. Such as yourself ;) And you really don't pay attention too well to what I've been saying now. You broke no crime Tuna. None that was proven anyways. And my issue was with your abuse of powers in regards to G-Tech, and closing the region. Yes, that is quite obvious. I own up to it :P And it was abusive in the extreme, especially closing the region. G-Tech threatened to Spam none of which you can prove. The President rejected his application upon your request and providing a lopsided story to a man who could barely be considered online. And the region was not yours to close Tuna. The region belonged to the people, and they trusted you to overlook the region. A trust that you broke for your own selfish reasons. Lol emotional rage :P It was legal rage, the courts would refuse to hear the first case I brought against you because it believed that only the Founder had the right to bring cases to the courts themselves. The second was a legal clarification which they clarified on. Emotional rage pertains that I was not using logic, but the opposite was true, I was attempting to use technicalities and wording to make a case, which is exactly what people do in RL to make cases before the courts. And what exactly did I take out of context Tuna? The ejection or the closing of the region? Because both seem cut and dry to me.

All evidence points to a rash decision. Let's face it you were recruiting, others were recruiting, right up until the final day. Then all of a sudden, you close up shop. Once again what you see in your head is not evidence. And this is NS Tuna, no one gets over anything :P They will use actions that occurred years and years ago as evidence and arguments :D The only reason I built another region was because a selfish individual decided that a group project, a project that was built by dozens of individuals, was worth nothing as only his effort truly mattered.

Lol Tuna you have as equally long rants, both our last posts was in the 800 word range :P Lol hey I'm not the only one with eyes Tuna, Valiantan seems to really like taking it to you, it's quite humorous to read as it's just now and again pops up ^_^ Jolly good fun ^_^

Hmmm lets see:
1. A region is not one man's job to build. I help of course but I can't do it all on my own. Just like this region wasn't all you Tuna, despite the outrageous beliefs you were god here.
2. In the game? Nah, I like the people. I've made some good friends on NS in some of the regions I've joined, this was one of the few where I genuinely liked the personalities here. That's all really. Lol invested :P I leave and come back to this game like every few years Tuna, I would say you're too invested if anything.
3. Oh yes the trauma :P Oh boy help me now I need help to cover up the sheer emotional pain I feel from someone acting selfish! I've never encountered that before!

Turning to insults now Tuna? Yes I can see how just throwing out insults without provocation makes me the close minded fool. At least titles I give you I back up. Ah let's see, deeply cared for the region? Yes I cared for it, it was a good place, the people in it were really good and there was potential. So why not? I've been to regions with boring people or those that just dicker around, but this one had a good life to it, it was a good way to get back in the game. Hence why I began contributing to the region so heavily in just that single week, from recruiting to looking at ways to get involved in government and laws and such. You claim I didn't contribute, I'd argue differently, and be able to back it up with evidence. I wonder what your definition of abuse of powers is Tuna. I really do, after all you have literally done the textbook definition of abuse of powers :P They were yours to abuse don't get me wrong, but abused they were. Tuna I hate to be the one to burst your bubble, but no one sacrificed for this region, you didn't lose anything, I didn't lose anything by trying to improve it. You may have wasted your time recruiting, I know I did, but honestly if you have time for a game that means your time is worthless anyways. So no, you didn't sacrifice anything Tuna :P Lie Tuna? Because it makes you look better, it gives you a way to justify your actions to yourself and others. Pretty simple to me. And if it was insignificant as you say Tuna you wouldn't have cared what happened to the region and left, as many do. No you cared a little too much I think to find out where it would have went without the almighty dictator guiding it.

We do run in circles don't we :P But that's the way the world is. Once again you resort to insults without any sort of evidence to back them up. You know I may call you a tyrant, dictator, and so on, but all those are based on actions you did Tuna. You call me trollish, idiot, close minded, all this does is invalidate your arguments as you now must resort to insults as you are lacking the intelligence and evidence to come up with anything better. I can disagree with you Tuna, but I wouldn't say you're an idiot, perhaps selfish, but once again evidence is there to help that.

This region was not you Tuna, it was not a physical manifestation of yourself. The region was the people that was in it. You weren't the only one to recruit, you weren't the only one to build the foundation, you simply gave it a beginning. That's like saying you solely raised a child therefore you have the right to end its life at your choosing. However it's not only your child, but the child of everyone who contributed to its growth and development. You like to see yourself as a martyr Tuna, and you need to get over that. This region wasn't something you built alone, it's something everyone built. And I certainly do not the right to close the RoL, it isn't mine alone. Perhaps if everyone in the region called it quits or decided to move on, then I would simply CTE the nation or hand it to someone who may still have an interest, but no it's not mine to close. It never was. If you don't think you violated any sort of moral code by forcibly removing people from something they enjoyed then you are quite a twisted individual, I always assumed you had a strong moral compass with that whole religious crap you try to spill, but I suppose that you choose not to extend that to your personal life unless it benefits you personally. And the right Tuna? No you never had the right, you simply took it.