Sondria RMB

WA Delegate: The United Empire of Aquilinia (elected )

Founder: The Meritocratic Union of Marquesan

BoardActivity History Admin Rank

Most World Assembly Endorsements: 590th Largest Arms Manufacturing Sector: 797th Most Nations: 804th+12
Largest Black Market: 834th Largest Information Technology Sector: 850th Most Influential: 1,011th Largest Manufacturing Sector: 1,015th Largest Mining Sector: 1,269th Most Scientifically Advanced: 1,277th Highest Economic Output: 1,379th Highest Poor Incomes: 1,385th Most Advanced Defense Forces: 1,420th Highest Average Incomes: 1,553rd Largest Publishing Industry: 1,703rd Largest Retail Industry: 1,729th
World Factbook Entry

"Amidst the darkest ashes grow the strongest seeds."

We are currently recruiting! Prospective members, please telegram The United Empire of Aquilinia or visit our Recruiting Thread! to find out how to join!


LinkPolitical Map LinkPhysical Map (WIP)
TG our cartographer, The Sovereign Empire of Gristol-Serkonos with claims and questions.
Off-Site:
LinkSondria
IRC: LinkMibbit link / Server: irc.esper.net, Channel: #Sondria

Info: All endorse the delegate, The United Empire of Aquilinia!

RPs: Titansfall. SRNN. Retribution. Chirping. Realpolitik. Sagas. Breaking. Gambit Newsnight Wanderlust Lion Redemption LinkKamch Civil War Planning Thread (Offsite)

Pan-Sondrian War Planning Thread
LinkAnalysis of the Newcastle War by Erjunhuf



Embassies: Hemithea, Greater Dienstad, Astyria, Greysteel, Maredoratica, Nova, Gholgoth, Sunalaya, The Freed Lands, Atlas, Ellorea, The Erviadus Galaxy, Sagittarius Arm, The Embassy, and Esquarium.

Tags: Map, Offsite Forums, Regional Government, Password, Medium, Role Player, Democratic, Post-Modern Tech, and Modern Tech.

Regional Power: Moderate

Sondria contains 16 nations, the 804th most in the world.

Password required

Today's World Census Report

The Largest Black Market in Sondria

World Census agents tracked "off the books" deals and handshake agreements in order to study the size of nations' informal economies.

As a region, Sondria is ranked 834th in the world for Largest Black Market.

NationWA CategoryMotto
1.The Imperial Federation of CrontorFather Knows Best State“Si vis pacem, para bellum”
2.The United Empire of AquiliniaScandinavian Liberal Paradise“United we Stand”
3.The Stratocratic Republic of IohannFather Knows Best State“Igitur qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum.”
4.The Ngati of Onekawa-NukanorNew York Times Democracy“Ngāti Tumatauenga”
5.The Meritocratic Union of MarquesanCivil Rights Lovefest“Fert Aurum Industria”
6.The Islamic Caliphate of MahdahIron Fist Consumerists“Let our caliphate grow and prosper.”
7.The Mechanocracy of The Technocratic SyndicalistsInoffensive Centrist Democracy“Surge Sursus”
8.The Socialist Republics of Communist XomaniaxFather Knows Best State“In the Land of Mordor, Where Shadows Lie. . .”
9.The Elder Republic of ErjunhufInoffensive Centrist Democracy“Honor Dictates Action”
10.The Fascist Dictatorship of The Greater Aryan RaceIron Fist Consumerists“Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Führer”
12»

Regional Happenings

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Sondria Regional Message Board

Woohoo! I found the old geographical map of Sondria!

http://iiwiki.com/images/8/8b/GeoMap_of_Sondria.png

The Meritocratic Union of Marquesan wrote:Woohoo! I found the old geographical map of Sondria!
http://iiwiki.com/images/8/8b/GeoMap_of_Sondria.png

We really need to update it.

The Socialist Republics of Communist Xomaniax wrote:We really need to update it.

That we do. I was glad to see the names of things didn't get lost to the sands of time, though. Useful to have this for RP.

Chem/bio are more terrorist weapons, their effectiveness in a military conflict with CRBN trained forces is dubious as best, probably more of an annoyance than anything. Ditto for dirty bombs/radiation weapons.

I think we go nukes then the concept of escalation applies, using tactical nukes against a military target is okay (ie nuclear torpedo, nuclear depth charges, etc) if you're willing to accept tactical nuclear retaliation. Strategic nuclear warfare, ie nuking cities, I think isn't smart because that would escalate into full-blown strategic nuclear exchanges which would have apocalyptic consequences.

The only currently viable EMP weapons are enhanced radiation nuclear warheads or high altitude nuclear explosions, the former is more of a tactical weapon (ie knocking out an incoming MIRV), the latter is a strategic attack which could take out an entire nation's power grid and would thus justify strategic nuclear retaliation.

Marquesan

I've always been of the opinion that the simplest and best course of action is to treat WMDs not so much as weapons in an arsenal on NS but as story telling devices which require rest the agreement of both parties.

I'd like to stick to such a policy for any and all WMDs.

Marquesan

While I remain in favour of retaining nuclear weapons chiefly for tactical use - chiefly for use against military targets, the use of strategic nuclear weapons should also be permitted as a retaliatory option.

As for chemical and biological weapons, there is little military use given, as Technocratic pointed out, the prevalence of NBC systems in most modern militaries (unless you're at Somalia or Uganda-levels of preparedness). Their use is for terror and counterinsurgency, to cow and subdue annoying terrorist and insurgent groups while keeping disgruntled citizens in check.

Marquesan

That's a great point; modern militaries are -all- going to have MOPP gear, they're all going to have proper training, decon kits, air scrubbers for vehicles to take contaminants out of the air, etc. There's not going to be a lot of opportunity to deploy most tactical-use WMD's such as various gases/toxins/stuff and do anything more than piss off your opponent. Ain't nobody in Sondria whose military can't afford gas masks. Now, there's plenty of opportunity to use this stuff on non-military combatants (read: Al Hafa) but it's pretty unneccessary seeing that for the most part we've all got pretty well-developed conventional munitions programmes. I mean... we can use napalm, that's not a banned weapon. Thermobarics aren't part of the moratorium... I can't really think of a situation where I'd need to trade a conventional weapon system for a radiological, chemical or biological one. The only real usefulness of dirty bombs is as an area denial weapon, but nobody's gonna be fighting a war over a piece of ground they don't EVER want to use for anything ever again. Hard to justify their use under any circumstance.

I can, however, see the utility in tactical nuclear weapons. more or less as a way to dramatically increase the efficiency of depth charges against deep-diving submarines or against military-only maritime targets where the risk of fallout affecting civilian populace is basically zero. High-altitude defensive measure against incoming re-entry vehicles, etc. If all parties concur, I'd say that two nuclear-armed countries should be able to deploy tactical nuclear weapons against each other's military targets with some limits as to their mass-deployability. (Can't go crazy, limited use as in a handful of weapons but not an arsenal of them.) That should be the rule for all WMD's; they should require the consent of all involved parties, with the understanding that the use of nuclear weapons eventually needs the consent of the entire region, with the understanding that it's not /just/ the combatants that nuclear fallout affects. It's an equal opportunity killer and we all share the burden of responsibly limiting their use.

Anybody have an argument in favor of the use of chem/bio/radiological weapons? I know some of us have made frequent use of them in other regions.

We should all recall that any WMD we de-restrict for national use also becomes de-restricted for terrorist use. In essence, anything we give to ourselves we must also give to Al Hafa. Do we really want the terrorists to have radiological, chemical and biological weapons they would have no compunction about exploiting our weaknesses and attacking our civilian populations with?

I guess I'll pitch my two cents in to this debate.

Chemical: Honestly, if we have to release one of these from the vault, chemical weapons seem like the best fit. Their military value in Sondria is pretty much null and void considering all of the different ways people have of countering them, so it's not like they can radically alter the battlefield unless you use them inventively, and they seem like a good substitute for people who otherwise want to use nukes because chem weapons can do massive damage to the civilian population without necessarily ruining the infrastructure of a place (seems like a win-win for everybody :P). However, for those of you wondering "Erjunhuf, what the hey? Releasing chemical weapons for general use? Preposterous!", despite my otherwise glowing recommendation, I think this one ought to be released on a short leash, at least initially, and some chemical weapons should not be released ever: nerve agents, in particular, ought to continue their stay in the moratorium/roleplay agreement.

Biological: I won't spend too much time on these, because biological agents should remain in the vault for what I hope are obvious reasons (and I have yet to see anybody lobbying otherwise, so I feel it's safe to assume biological weapons will not see the light of day). I think they can be a really cool roleplay gimmick if everybody agrees to their use (War of the Princes comes to mind, for those of us who were here for that), but otherwise they ought to stay banned.

Radiological: These weapons are inherently pointless for combat, so on merely their face value I have no problem with their use; however, I'd caution against releasing radiological weapons on the whole from the vault. There are enough states in Sondria who would be fine dumping a radiological weapon in a water source in their zone of occupation if they had to retreat/wanted to leave a going away present for the post-war recovery. As this seems like a problem that could be easily abused if people can do it wantonly, I'd like to keep radiological weapons on the moratorium as well. The one exception I'd be cool with are dirty bombs: seeing as they're really only weapons that cause fear as opposed to widespread damage, I have no problem releasing dirty bombs from the moratorium, no holds barred. Let the terrorists of the region have a new toy to play with :P

Nuclear: This seems like the contentions banned weapon, and for good reason. I'm torn here, because on the one hand, most Sondrian states likely have a developed nuclear arsenal at their disposal and there's no logical reason for not deploying a least something on the tactical level if things get dicey, but on the other hand, it only takes one nuclear detonation for things to escalate to full-on apocalyptic craziness, which honestly renders mass conventional warfare (like the soon-to-be insane Titansfall) effectively moot. As it stands, it seems like there are quite a few people here who would treat the detonation of one nuclear device as permission to abandon proportionality entirely and make a full-on second strike; that basically renders the idea of a "tactical" nuke pointless because such an event can only lead to strategic escalation en masse. I think I would be more in favor of nuclear deployment if roleplaying in the region was done where permission between parties to commence a particular incident was not required, because then nukes would act as a true deterrence. As it stands though, that's obviously not how the region works. We could always get rid of the moratorium entirely and let players decide their nuclear policy, but I feel like that could lead to roleplay discrimination between "pro-nuke" and "anti-nuke" players and could ultimately wind up diluting, curbing, or otherwise prematurely neutering roleplay ideas. And unfortunately, try as I can to wrack my brain for a better framework than "roleplay decision" that would cater to both sides of this debate, there doesn't seem to be a better way than to keep nukes where they've been: banned unless otherwise agreed upon.

Conclusion: Notwithstanding a slight relaxing of policy regarding chemical weapons, the safest and, in my opinion, fairest thing to do in this situation is to continue what we've always done: if the principal parties of a roleplay, or the principal parties of a specific instance in a roleplay, agree to the use of a CBRN agent, then it should be kosher for that specific roleplay or instance. Otherwise, keeping them under lock-and-key seems to be the best thing to do.

Crontor

The Socialist Republics of Communist Xomaniax wrote:We really need to update it.

Uh yeah.

Working on those.

-looks at the office consumed in flames-

Totally in control of the situation.

Crontor, Erjunhuf, and Marquesan

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