Social Liberal Union RMB

WA Delegate: The Federal Union of Mons Garle (elected )

Founder: Ainland

BoardActivity History Admin Rank

Most World Assembly Endorsements: 5th Most Influential: 10th Most Nations: 89th+25
Most Inclusive: 526th Nicest Citizens: 575th Most Compassionate Citizens: 639th Most Cultured: 670th Largest Welfare Programs: 748th Most Rebellious Youth: 759th Most Cheerful Citizens: 782nd Smartest Citizens: 800th Most Advanced Public Education: 943rd Least Corrupt Governments: 966th Largest Publishing Industry: 1,052nd Longest Average Lifespans: 1,143rd Most Extensive Public Healthcare: 1,163rd Most Beautiful Environments: 1,166th Healthiest Citizens: 1,167th Most Eco-Friendly Governments: 1,182nd Most Advanced Public Transport: 1,299th Most Developed: 1,303rd Highest Poor Incomes: 1,355th Most Pacifist: 1,357th Most Popular Tourist Destinations: 1,395th Best Weather: 1,478th Highest Foreign Aid Spending: 1,751st Largest Governments: 1,805th Most Scientifically Advanced: 1,930th
World Factbook Entry

A region for democratic socialists and socially minded liberals.

Values
The SLU is a region dedicated to democracy, social welfare, equality and freedom of opinion; debate is encouraged.

Welcome! Please endorse the WA Delegate, Mons Garle, and enjoy a cookie. (::)

RECRUITERS: We are not a recruiter-friendly region and we are a UCR-UCR treaty signatory.



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Events: LinkOpen Parliament Discussion



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    New to the SLU? Read the Getting Started Guide!

    MetaReference by The slu government . 469 reads.

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    Want an embassy with the SLU? Then read this first!

    BulletinPolicy by The slu government . 201 reads.

Embassies: Democratic Socialist Assembly, The Versutian Federation, International Democratic Union, A Liberal Haven, The International Kingdom, and Eurasian Socialist Union.

Tags: Democratic, Enormous, Offsite Forums, Map, Eco-friendly, Featured, Socialist, Liberal, Role Player, Founderless, and Regional Government.

Regional Power: Very High

Social Liberal Union contains 127 nations, the 89th most in the world.

Today's World Census Report

The Most Efficient Economies in Social Liberal Union

Nations ranked highly are the most ruthlessly efficient at translating raw resources, including people, into economic output.

As a region, Social Liberal Union is ranked 6,376th in the world for Most Efficient Economies.

NationWA CategoryMotto
1.The City-State of Phing PhongLeft-wing Utopia“Wisdom shall destroy ignorance”
2.The Magnificent Kingdom of AvaerilonLeft-wing Utopia“Ylf ī'n Qidīol īr Fyr Aspar (I am True to My Spirit)”
3.The Capital of HoltmimirLiberal Democratic Socialists“ᴀʟʟ ɍᴀᴛʜᴇʀs ᴄᴀʀᴇ ɍѳʀ ᴛʜᴇɪʀ sѳɴs”
4.The Federal Republic of EuphionAnarchy“for freedom and liberty!”
5.The All-Saints Paradise of GoncarLeft-Leaning College State“With freedom comes responsibility ”
6.The Modus of Christian RepublicInoffensive Centrist Democracy“I'm infinite, necessarily existing, only substance. ”
7.The Unified Kingdom of AsminoLandScandinavian Liberal Paradise“Many But One ”
8.The Federal Democratic Republic of VancovariaLeft-wing Utopia“Freedom isn't freedom without equality”
9.The Egalitarian Archipelago of KanoriaLeft-wing Utopia“give of their own, to learn from the other.”
10.The Determined Republic of United Democracy of ScientistsInoffensive Centrist Democracy“With our minds, we may find ourselves and the stars.”
1234. . .1213»

Regional Happenings

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Social Liberal Union Regional Message Board

The Communalist Federation of North American Republics wrote:I think that the better comparison is to atheists. It holds despite there being a rather sharp difference on the left between anarchists, left-communists, and Marxist-Leninists+ (the role of the state). I wouldn't say that a large percentage are necessarily close-minded, just confident that their position is best from what they've actually read and/or their knowledge of history or politics or economics, much like atheists tend to tout logic/reasoning and reading to why they don't believe. By introducing those people to other authors or by teaching them something new that they haven't thought about before, though, you can usually see a shift in opinion about communist systems.
At any rate, a spectre is haunting the Social Liberal Union -- the spectre of communism. :P
P.S. Referring to other comments you've made; socialism isn't raising tax rates to 90%, that's social democracy; capitalism constantly collapses, so I'm not sure that's the best system we can have; and what are these weak arguments on the left you talk about?


You're right. Atheists can be a good example. It is more than confidence. I've seen a lot of arrogance and intolerance, but that's a whole separate discussion.

I use the traditional textbook definition for these terms, otherwise I feel they hold no meaning at all. I know people that espouse these philosophies often disagree, but in the ways that they disagree, I don't think their argument is particularly useful, measurable, and/or realistic.

Communism = anarchism (loss of law, loss of the formal state) along with tribes or communes that arise organically on very small scales. I think this is a fairytale because the only non-expanding civilization is one that doesn't have property rights and goes to war constantly. The real communists that I've met often seem to be deluded by the Noble Savage myth. Also, they greatly overestimate the ability for independent communities to cooperate for large projects that necessarily require complete cooperation. As we develop our technology further, this is barrier for entry continues to rise.

Socialism = the government ownership of industries. Yes, there are other features common or basically inherent to socialism, but because they can be found in other systems, I do not think they are correctly *the definition* of socialism. Therefore, I don't consider hardly any governments in the world to be socialist. Maybe N Korea or Cuba are; I don't pay attention to be honest. The only socialist aspects in America, off the top of my head, are the utilities. Hiring private contractors isn't socialist. Taxing isn't socialist (although at a 90% tax rate, I don't see how you could have anything but central planning of the economy). Welfare isn't socialist (food stamps, housing vouchers, and single payer health care are effectively hiring private contractors for food and housing, and the other major programs are just cash-like benefits), although you will certainly see a lot of it if you centrally plan your economy. The great problem with socialism is the calculation problem and the lack of reward for innovation.

As for weak arguments that I disagree with, I can't think of any great examples right now. Generally, I place a lot more weight in statistics than a moral argument. The left and the right often makes moral arguments, which don't really fly with me. I have morals, but they are measured in statistics and scientific models. I guess my philosophy for many, but not all, things is that if you can't measure it, you don't know it.

The Communalist Federation of North American Republics wrote:what are these weak arguments on the left you talk about?


Also, another example would be things that make more or less sense at different scales. As the world is today, I don't think gun control makes a whole lot of sense. We have massive borders and massive rural areas that would be impossible to police. In the end, honest people would be defenseless against gangs and other dishonest people in general. Could we reaaaally lay down the hammer for illegal gun and make other powerful legislation of that nature? I suppose, but I still think it would be a rough situation.

Now, say we made an agreement with Mexico to jointly reduce guns. Obviously, we have to legalize drugs to prevent the illegal drug trade from having power in Mexico. Slowly working on peace there, I think we could also slowly start to reduce gun levels. We'd probably work with Canada on this too.

Another example is a high speed rail system. It makes some economic sense in America. One of the main projects discussed is the California high speed rail, but I have to wonder how many people in LA really want to go to SF (and likewise for the opposite). Now, imagine the entire nation was set up with high speed rail. Ok, now this is starting to seem more economical and great to have. Now, imagine the US, Canada, Russia, and China agree to an intercontinental rail, including a tunnel or bridge over the Bearing Strait. This would be one of the greatest technological achievements in mankind's history, in my opinion. It would transform so many things. Once we're in East Asia, it would also be easy to expand to the rest of Asia, Europe, and even Africa. I've long felt that transportation innovation is the key to world peace and solidarity. Once we have those things, we can stop our competitive practices that waste resources, such as the military. If we had an EU-like organization covering North America, Europe, and Northeast Asia (to start out), we could probably fairly quickly bring everyone else up to high living standards and have the authority to police bad areas instead of having to militarize them. Police works against terrorism; militaries don't.

North American Republics

The Allied States of Arktikos wrote:
Socialism = the government ownership of industries. Yes, there are other features common or basically inherent to socialism, but because they can be found in other systems, I do not think they are correctly *the definition* of socialism. Therefore, I don't consider hardly any governments in the world to be socialist. Maybe N Korea or Cuba are; I don't pay attention to be honest. The only socialist aspects in America, off the top of my head, are the utilities. Hiring private contractors isn't socialist. Taxing isn't socialist (although at a 90% tax rate, I don't see how you could have anything but central planning of the economy). Welfare isn't socialist (food stamps, housing vouchers, and single payer health care are effectively hiring private contractors for food and housing, and the other major programs are just cash-like benefits), although you will certainly see a lot of it if you centrally plan your economy. The great problem with socialism is the calculation problem and the lack of reward for innovation.


Collective ownership, not government ownership. While government ownership is the easiest and most practiced way to achieve this (and I believe in some cases the only or best way) it can just as well be achieved through democratized market economies. For a (not perfect) RL example, you could take a look at Tito's Yugoslavia, which is afaik the closest to this we have ever achieved.

North American Republics and Miroma

The Allied States of Arktikos wrote:*snip*

Regarding the definitions: Just about everyone on the left is in agreement that communism is a classless, stateless, socialist society. Socialism is defined as the workers owning the means of production, which can take the form you suggested for it (government ownership) or some other form of ownership. These are the definitions one can come up with by going through just about any leftist literature (including those by Marx). To take any other definition would be a disservice to the ideologies and would continue decades-old anti-communist propaganda. Anarchism, too, suffers from such misinformation. It is a stateless society. That's it, for the most part. You'll have your anarcho-communists, mutualists, anarcho-primativists, and even anarcho-capitalists, each having a different economic policy, but are all united in their disdain for the state (ancaps are, however, usually seen as outside the anarchist umbrella because of a pervasive and well-deserved disdain for capital).

The thing about statistics and scientific models is that the former can be manipulated by tweaking the variables ever so slightly and the latter can be suppressed. Just look at all of the varying nutrition studies where one day eggs are the Devil incarnate and the next day you're guaranteed a place in Heaven just by having one. Or the environmental studies that were suppressed by fossil fuel industries that are only now coming to light. Moral arguments are just an easy way to get a point across to a large cross-section of the population without them needing to conduct a study to make sure you're right.
_____
Well, many on the left are actually in favor of common-sense gun control to no control. It goes hand-in-hand with the idea of revolution; how could the workers revolt without access to weaponry? Historically they've stormed arsenals, but those are pretty much under strong military control now, so that would pose an issue.

Legalizing drugs would not stop the cartels too much. Now instead of offing a bus because a passenger insulted them, they'll kidnap the females on the bus and sell them off into slavery. They've spent too much on building networks for them to just give up and leave because the US legalized marijuana and/or decriminalized drugs. It would require military offenses and improving impoverished areas to stop the cartels, just like any other rebellion around the world.

I can't say that I would agree that the world would unite over infrastructure, but I do like the idea of a world-wide infrastructure project and think that infrastructural overhaul has been long due.

Hello, what is you guys opinion on brexit?

The Principality of The Tirol region wrote:Hello, what is you guys opinion on brexit?

We should've stayed.

But we didn't.

And the nation will never be the same.

North American Republics, Odd Republic, The Tirol region, and Miroma

The Principality of The Tirol region wrote:Hello, what is you guys opinion on brexit?

Ewwwww, thats an icky word.

The United Kingdom of Britannialand wrote:Ewwwww, thats an icky word.

The Federal Republic of Arachaea wrote:We should've stayed.
But we didn't.
And the nation will never be the same.

IKR

The United Kingdom of Britannialand wrote:Ewwwww, thats an icky word.

Sorry, but I've got to steal your motto.

The Principality of The Tirol region wrote:Sorry, but I've got to steal your motto.

You are most welcome to do so ;) I've stolen Normandy and Picardy's flag for the referendum.

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