Philosophy 115 RMB

WA Delegate (non-executive): The Nomocratic Commonwealth of Central Kadigan (elected 26 days ago)

Founder: The Holy Purple Eudaemonium of Dr George

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We are the #1 region in NationStates for approaching life rationally without unfounded assumptions.
KEYWORDS: Tolerance,Fellowship and Friendship,Fun,Questioning Authority

Region Founded 10 February 2005.
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Featured Region on 21 July 2009.
We first reached 100 members on 23 June 2014; we first were ranked in the 100 largest regions in NS on 30 July 2014.

We do not make embassies with regions containing fewer than 10 distinct nations or younger than 1 month.

Embassies: The Skeleton Army, Ulthar, The United States of Europe, Forest, Futaba Aoi, Circle of Badularity, Scandinavia, The Commonwealth Of Furry Peoples, Haiku, Free States of Gaia, The Bad Place, Nudist Dreamland, 10000 Islands, Free Thought, Gay, Kittens Sanctuary, and 39 others.A Liberal Haven, New Europe, California, The Exodus, Argentina, Israel, India, The Respected Realms, The House at Pooh Corner, Hippy Haven, The Maritimes, United States of America, Freedom and Justice Alliance, Secularia, Deutschland, Merry Christmas, Louisiana Alliance x Alliance Louisiane, New York, The SOP, Lower Canada, Gay Equality, The Local Supermarket, Spectrasonic, Groland, The Rose Garden, Canada, Star Trek, Ivory Tower, Animal House, desert, Alliance of Technates, The Legions of Heaven And Hell, The Atheist Empire, The New Study Group, My Pants, The Sea Of Love, Eladen, The Pacifican Union, and Blue Tongue Graphics.

Tags: Independent, Enormous, Liberal, Offsite Forums, Social, and World Assembly.

Regional Power: High

Philosophy 115 contains 166 nations, the 71st most in the world.

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1.The Snow Crash Dystopia of AnarchocapitalistanAnarchy“ No State '' No God '' No Leader '' No Law”
2.The Corporate Dictatorship of Postapocalyptic TerrorCompulsory Consumerist State“Arisen from ruins - Into an era of Glory!”
3.The Mighty Master Race of MacroGlupCorporate Police State“In Chef's Hands we Place Our Plate”
4.The Magnificent Master Race of Red SkywalkerCorporate Police State“DoNuts before Dishonour”
5.The Machiavellian Master Race of MicroGlupCorporate Police State“Concrete and Cheese”
6.The Gambler's Anonymous of Hoosier DaddiesAnarchy“Diamonds are wild!”
7.The Holy Gray Zombies of Haunted Roller CoasterAnarchy“FREEDOM!”
8.The Holy Automated Zombie of BenderBotAnarchy“Just kidding!”
9.The Soulless Entity of New Old New New YorkAnarchy“☆ Setting the pace since 4 June 2004.☆”
10.The Bannonic Republic of New NorkadorfCapitalizt“I'll Take Care Of These Babies The Easy Way”
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Philosophy 115 Regional Message Board

The Technocrati Thing of Techno-Titania wrote:I think greater things can be accomplished with positive motivators. Like the pyramids.


The pyramids were likely built using slave and conscripted labour.

I have actually been to Egypt (GREAT country!) and even climbed down into the Great Pyramid of Cheops. The things are f'ing HUGE. Visiting Egypt should be on everyone's bucket list. ;)

I'll spare you a repeat of the rankings since we had this one fairly recently.

Welcome to P115, Tiaraan, Victoria Australis, Voltain, Besitos de Oro, Altai, and Bremenland!

The Enlightened Purgatory of NW Hell Rehab Center wrote:If I feel good about laboring for honor, duty or an ideal, then I'm being selfish by doing so. That's one of my points, I think. Something has to make a person want to do a good job if one is to be done. Whether I do it because I want a big TV, or because I feel I have a duty, I'm acting in my own self-interest, i.e., selfishly. If you expect me to work for an ideal I don't hold, then that's the whip. And if I do labor because I have an ideal that's bigger than myself, then supporting that ideal is one of my personal whims and desires. I doubt that Mother Teresa spent her life ministering to the wretched without getting deep fulfillment from it, because she had an affinity for that sort of service. Is she to be condemned because that's where her personal whims and desires led her?


We're now edging into free will vs. determinism and the ethics that flow from such. Some writers, notably Kant, have made the point that you are not being ethically good when you're being nice to your friends because you get rewards/positive reinforcements in a tit-for-tat relationship, selfishly stroke your ego about what a nice person you are, etc. Kant maintained that the only ethically commendable kindness was that shown to strangers or even to persons we loathe, but even then one could argue you get your ego stroked by being such a nice person, in your own eyes, those of the community, maybe even God if she's watching. :)

The Enlightened Purgatory of NW Hell Rehab Center wrote:If I feel good about laboring for honor, duty or an ideal, then I'm being selfish by doing so.


I disagree. The pleasure that comes from an action may be incidental to one's reasons for performing it. And it's doubtful that anyone feels good about performing one's duty all of the time - but one may still choose to do it.

[quote=nw_hell_rehab_center;11060453I doubt that Mother Teresa spent her life ministering to the wretched without getting deep fulfillment from it, because she had an affinity for that sort of service.[/quote]

On the contrary, her personal letters reveal that she spent much of her life in a "dark night of the soul" and that she underwent intense personal suffering and depression stemming from doubt.

Visiting Queendom of Myself

The Holy Purple Eudaemonium of Dr George wrote:The pyramids were likely built using slave and conscripted labour.

I have actually been to Egypt (GREAT country!) and even climbed down into the Great Pyramid of Cheops. The things are f'ing HUGE. Visiting Egypt should be on everyone's bucket list. ;)


Me too!

I am not sure what you were told or saw but my experience led me to conclude the first pyramids or the great pyramid was not built by slaves. The organizational capabilities of the empire may have fallen afterwards but it was at its height for the great pyramid. Especially if you compare the interior chambers of each. I went into both. The great pyramid is perfect. The second is definitely not perfect.

It was awe inspiring to see the pyramids as you approach, even with all the garbage built up around it. It must have been 100x that when they were covered with limestone. That right there was a powerful positive inspiration, besides the thought you work would guarantee you would live forever. Quite a motivator, especially when you consider these buildings were the biggest things these people would ever see for thousands of years.

Even approaching the work zone must have been inspiring and quite unlike anything they would have seen. Whole cities sprung up where nothing was before. To be a part of something unlike anything else would be a motivator. I am sure some soured on it or thought the whole thing a collossal waste of time but to others there were many reasons to do it. I mean you get thousands of people lining up to buy something the first day it is issued, even though Ty know perfectly well they can get it later. Why? To be a part of something.

People have banded together for a lot crappier reasons than that. I fail to see why it is likely it would have to be unwilling laborers. It wasn't like they spent there entire lives there. But I don't see the Jews as any sorts of slaves in Egypt either, no matter what was written about it.

The Free Economic Zone of New Seldon wrote:I disagree. The pleasure that comes from an action may be incidental to one's reasons for performing it. And it's doubtful that anyone feels good about performing one's duty all of the time - but one may still choose to do it.

[quote=nw_hell_rehab_center;11060453I doubt that Mother Teresa spent her life ministering to the wretched without getting deep fulfillment from it, because she had an affinity for that sort of service.[/ quote]

On the contrary, her personal letters reveal that she spent much of her life in a "dark night of the soul" and that she underwent intense personal suffering and depression stemming from doubt.


This fact does not contradict what I said in any way.

I have voted FOR the Security Council resolution to repeal commend Krulltopia. This does not look like it will be a contentious vote.

The previous SC resolution to condemn Stujenske 12,643 to 1,344 - that's >90%

taking from a philosophical lens regarding motivation: Peter Singer has brought out an excellent book this year on charity donation and altruism which is a good read. That said, most of Singer's work is. Maybe a bit more upto date than Kant's writing style...

That said, something more closely to the debate on motivation may not necessitate free will. But absolutely the good Dr. George had hit the nail on the head with value ethics which steeps into the psychological processes of motivation.

It would be lovely if everyone loved their job for the sake of loving it. But that ain't always going to be the case. Practically it can't. What is clear though with absolute certainty, is that if you are only motivated through external gain then you end up making a half arsed job of the thing, no matter the reward (extrinsic motivation).

Take it a step on, and say that slaves being part of a greater whole when creating hallmarks of ancient Egypt must have thought "epic, there is a chance I will die building this; there is no chance I am going to ever enjoy the fruits of my labour at the end of this; but dammit, I just cannot get this warm fuzzy feeling out of myself, because I am part of something", seems to me a little naive.

Labour, from anyone, who is in a Marxist sense, alienated, is labour of low quality. Pure and simple. We find this finding through proxy, of course, as it is theoretical, to be confirmed time and time again in the literature.

The Enlightened Purgatory of NW Hell Rehab Center wrote:This fact does not contradict what I said in any way.


Actually, I think it does precisely that.

There are two main issues here that you haven't addressed:

(1) That there is often a conflict between one's "personal whims and desires" and the demands of a larger goal, and that people can and do sacrifice the one for the sake of the former.

(2) That even if performing an action results in a good feeling, it does not follow from this that the action was performed for the sake of feeling good, and that therefore the action in question cannot be deemed to be "selfish" (i.e. undertaken primarily for one's self interest).

What are your thoughts on the new General Assembly proposal? Should we mandate sex education?

I personally favor the proposal, although I predict that more religious nations will oppose it.

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