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WA Delegate: The Republic of The Akasha Colony (elected 1 year 251 days ago)

Founder: Korribanos

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These are Nations either begun or continued on Facebook.

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Comrades, we have done it! We have vanquished the zombie hordes not once, but twice!

Embassies: Aels, Intergalactic Federacy, Alterran Federation, Necron Empire, and Erset Lag Tari.

Tags: Offsite Forums, Social, Future Tech, Password, Outer Space, Role Player, Fantasy Tech, Post-Modern Tech, Medium, and Founderless.

Regional Power: Moderate

Facebook Nations contains 33 nations, the 334th most in the world.

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#NationWA CategoryMotto
1.The Anarcho-Syndacalist Commune of CzechanadaCivil Rights Lovefest“Compassion, Freedom, and Progress”
2.The Space Commune of The Second Brotherhood of PlanetsCivil Rights Lovefest“Imagine all the people... Living life in peace.”
3.The Colony of Redemption-AmericaCapitalist Paradise“E Pluribus Unum”
4.The Confederacy of Confederate States 0f AmericaInoffensive Centrist Democracy“Deo Vindice”
5.The Housemates of Great Houses of XieWA MemberCivil Rights Lovefest“The art of war is of vital importance to the state”
6.The Republic of The Akasha ColonyWA MemberLeft-Leaning College State“True Freedom for All Men”
7.The Legal Fiction of Midgar and JunonWA MemberLeft-Leaning College State“You can hear the cry of The Planet.”
8.The Republic of United States 0f AmericaWA MemberLeft-Leaning College State“United We Stand, Divided We Fall ”
9.The Glimmering Snowbound Realms of PordlandiaInoffensive Centrist Democracy“We who command the blizzard”
10.The Kingdom of Resurgent Byzantine EmpireFather Knows Best State“Nam et Senatus et Populusque Romanus”
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The Colony of Redemption-America wrote:Even if he mentioned cricket, nobody cares about cricket.

On the other hand, everyone cares about crickets.

Sooooo.... We have plenty of politically savvy (or at least seem to consider politics as one of their interests) people here. What are your thoughts on ISIS?

The Space Commune of The Second Brotherhood of Planets wrote:Sooooo.... We have plenty of politically savvy (or at least seem to consider politics as one of their interests) people here. What are your thoughts on ISIS?

It is a Bad Thing (TM).
...
What...uh...else is there to say? I guess I don't entirely get the question.

The Colony of IshCong wrote:It is a Bad Thing (TM).
...
What...uh...else is there to say? I guess I don't entirely get the question.

Hmn, allow me to rephrase:

"What is your analysis on ISIS? Are they just Bad with a capital B? Or do they represent something more than that?"

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/07/22/isis-robs-christians-fleeing-its-edict-in-mosul-convert-leave-or-die.html

http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2014/06/the-isis-guide-to-building-an-islamic-state/372769/

The former is a typical report on how they are indeed committing atrocities. But the latter makes the idea that they're nothing more than thugs kind of surreal, no?

The Space Commune of The Second Brotherhood of Planets wrote:Hmn, allow me to rephrase:

"What is your analysis on ISIS? Are they just Bad with a capital B? Or do they represent something more than that?"

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/07/22/isis-robs-christians-fleeing-its-edict-in-mosul-convert-leave-or-die.html

http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2014/06/the-isis-guide-to-building-an-islamic-state/372769/

The former is a typical report on how they are indeed committing atrocities. But the latter makes the idea that they're nothing more than thugs kind of surreal, no?

"Evil" and "organization" and "sophistication" have never been mutually exclusive. As such, it shouldn't be surprising that not all evil people are simplistic thugs. Half the 'good' stuff in the second link (disclaimer: I didn't read the first on the presumption it would contain nothing that would conceivably alter my view of ISIS) is simple bureaucratic or organizational stuff (getting electricity around, maintaining dams, "judicial" actions, etc) that anyone sees the need for but often with added religious zealotry. It's worth noting that if ISIS didn't exist it would be significantly easier for other organizations to perform those same functions, both in present ISIS territories and elsewhere, thanks to not having to divert resources to fight a bunch of fanatic militants.

There's only one paragraph that I would say doesn't focus on strictly pragmatic, self-interested efforts or efforts that are essentially just vehicles for proselytism.
"The militants have also developed health and welfare programs. ISIS helps run bread factories and provides fruits and vegetables to many families, passing the goods out personally. In Raqqa, ISIS has established a food kitchen to feed the needy and an Office for Orphans to help pair them with families. The Taliban may be paranoid and skeptical about vaccination campaigns, but ISIS conducts polio-vaccination campaigns to try and arrest the disease’s spread."

None of that is unique to ISIS or even alien to other regimes regimes that have long been considered the epitome of evil. So, okay, maybe they're more than simple thugs. But they're still A Bad Thing (TM) from...everything I've seen of them. Just a more organized Bad Thing.

The Colony of IshCong wrote:(disclaimer: I didn't read the first on the presumption it would contain nothing that would conceivably alter my view of ISIS)

There's only one paragraph that I would say doesn't focus on strictly pragmatic, self-interested efforts or efforts that are essentially just vehicles for proselytism.
"The militants have also developed health and welfare programs. ISIS helps run bread factories and provides fruits and vegetables to many families, passing the goods out personally. In Raqqa, ISIS has established a food kitchen to feed the needy and an Office for Orphans to help pair them with families. The Taliban may be paranoid and skeptical about vaccination campaigns, but ISIS conducts polio-vaccination campaigns to try and arrest the disease’s spread."

None of that is unique to ISIS or even alien to other regimes regimes that have long been considered the epitome of evil. So, okay, maybe they're more than simple thugs. But they're still A Bad Thing (TM) from...everything I've seen of them. Just a more organized Bad Thing.

The first one is still worth reading, if only to verify that their claims of making an Islamic state "of peace" is an amazing joke when they're exterminating or evicting Christians unless they convert. I thought a Caliphate was supposed to tolerate People of the Book? >_>

And arguably what you just mentioned is proselytism as well. See all religions have to demonstrate how they're so good, and if ISIS did not contribute to welfare programs or 'soup kitchens' in some form it would be far more difficult for them to claim a moral high ground in their propaganda. With those actions, they can say: "Look, we feed the poor and help the needy, see how merciful we are!"

I was just wondering whether anyone was willing to play devil's advocate or something. Guess not.

The Colony of IshCong wrote:"Evil" and "organization" and "sophistication" have never been mutually exclusive. As such, it shouldn't be surprising that not all evil people are simplistic thugs. ..

None of that is unique to ISIS or even alien to other regimes regimes that have long been considered the epitome of evil. So, okay, maybe they're more than simple thugs. But they're still A Bad Thing (TM) from...everything I've seen of them. Just a more organized Bad Thing.

And sorry for double post, but I was alluding to the stereotype that terrorists are nothing more than thugs who attack people, often innocents. It appears that in the eyes of various "news" broadcasts, they'd be shocked if Hamas did similar charity work.

The Space Commune of The Second Brotherhood of Planets wrote:The first one is still worth reading, if only to verify that their claims of making an Islamic state "of peace" is an amazing joke when they're exterminating or evicting Christians unless they convert. I thought a Caliphate was supposed to tolerate People of the Book? >_>

And arguably what you just mentioned is proselytism as well. See all religions have to demonstrate how they're so good, and if ISIS did not contribute to welfare programs or 'soup kitchens' in some form it would be far more difficult for them to claim a moral high ground in their propaganda. With those actions, they can say: "Look, we feed the poor and help the needy, see how merciful we are!"

I was just wondering whether anyone was willing to play devil's advocate or something. Guess not.

I don't think there's any ISIS advocates here, though I'm sure you could find a few on NSG. Probably a lot of people who would blame America too, because everything is America's fault somehow.

The Space Commune of The Second Brotherhood of Planets wrote:The first one is still worth reading, if only to verify that their claims of making an Islamic state "of peace" is an amazing joke when they're exterminating or evicting Christians unless they convert. I thought a Caliphate was supposed to tolerate People of the Book? >_>

I guess. But I already knew that they weren't making a state "of peace" and that they were forcibly converting, evicting, or punishing anyone who didn't adhere to their twisted interpretation of Islam. So I just skimped to save time. *shrug*
And, yes, it's my understanding as well that earlier Caliphates were pretty religiously tolerant, relative to other states of the time period.

The Space Commune of The Second Brotherhood of Planets wrote:And arguably what you just mentioned is proselytism as well. See all religions have to demonstrate how they're so good, and if ISIS did not contribute to welfare programs or 'soup kitchens' in some form it would be far more difficult for them to claim a moral high ground in their propaganda. With those actions, they can say: "Look, we feed the poor and help the needy, see how merciful we are!"

Proselytism might not have been the most clear word choice. When I said that I was referring to some of their other efforts. Like forming schools...dedicated to teaching and spreading their views. Or forming police units and judicial institutions...dedicated to enforcing religious laws and punishing things like apostasy or heresy. In contrast to welfare programs, which just make them look good, these other schools and courts are directly attempting to use institutional force to convert people and enforce religious laws. While things like promoting courts and justice and education are normally admirable, this taints those institutions to a large degree since they're now also tools of religious oppression.

The Space Commune of The Second Brotherhood of Planets wrote:I was just wondering whether anyone was willing to play devil's advocate or something. Guess not.

I often am, but you asked what I thought of ISIS and this is what I thought. =T
The whole thing about devil's advocates is that they often don't agree with the position they are arguing.

The Colony of IshCong wrote:I often am, but you asked what I thought of ISIS and this is what I thought. =T
The whole thing about devil's advocates is that they often don't agree with the position they are arguing.

So you gave me an honest opinion. Thanks! Some people would have responded with sarcasm. I wasn't completely familiar with what ISIS was doing, and I wanted to see if anyone was willing to discuss this, but after making a remedy of my ignorance I no longer hold a neutral position.

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