by Max Barry

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Nightkill the emperor

Reverend Norv wrote:I have twice been to Aizawl. Nice place - feels like a small town. Lots of churches. I'm fine.

You're also immortal.

Nationstatelandsville

Nightkill the emperor wrote:You're also immortal.

And into churches.

Nightkill the emperor

http://fee.org/anythingpeaceful/detail/bernie-sanders-anti-immigration-crankery

Dammit Bernie.

Nightkill the emperor wrote:http://fee.org/anythingpeaceful/detail/bernie-sanders-anti-immigration-crankery

Dammit Bernie.

About that site:

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Foundation_for_Economic_Education

I wouldn't expect a libertarian think tank to provide unbiased coverage on a pretty left wing (for US standards, and he's no socialist IMHO) candidate.

http://www.vox.com/2015/7/28/9014491/bernie-sanders-vox-conversation

The actual interview is there. While I disagree about his opinions (which are neither very extremist or even xenophobic), I'd also like to think that he's doing his own to moderate a bit. Like it or not, the concept of open borders isn't much popular in the US.

On a related note, I've been called a "nutter" and been told that "jobs are a FINITE resource" for trying to argue for open borders in the past. It's really an hard thing to do.

Jobs are a finite resource?

Wut.

I'm not personally pro-open borders, but I prefer a large enough immigration quota to conceivably deal with all qualified applicants.

G-Tech Corporation wrote:Jobs are a finite resource?

Wut.

I'm not personally pro-open borders, but I prefer a large enough immigration quota to conceivably deal with all qualified applicants.

That said, the US still has got some stupid quotas. I remember reading that people with a Master's Degree who aren't being employed by a company need to jump through 10-year long bureaucratic hoops.

Agritum wrote:That said, the US still has got some stupid quotas. I remember reading that people with a Master's Degree who aren't being employed by a company need to jump through 10-year long bureaucratic hoops.

This is true.

Also, we have a weird thing about only wanting people that are exactly like people already here. Pretty counterproductive.

G-Tech Corporation wrote:This is true.

Also, we have a weird thing about only wanting people that are exactly like people already here. Pretty counterproductive.

Oh yes. That's the biggest crock of bullshit.

Agritum wrote:Oh yes. That's the biggest crock of bullshit.

It has to do with a lot of really old ideas about preserving ethnic harmony and whatnot by keeping the current ratios in place.

And we literally do lottery of people that are qualified, instead of sensibly choosing the most needed. I mean, I get it gives even the poorest educated and most needy immigrants hope, but it frustrates the fvck out of professionals who want to come work/live in the States.

I like how it works in the EU, even if it something only large supranational unions can do:

Say, you're some starving Greek young man who however just finished getting his Master's Degree in Aerospace Engineering, got his first work experiences is now searching for a better paying job? Just buy a plane ticket, rent a flat and spend a week in London/Berlin/Paris/Bruxelles/Stockholm thrawling through job offers.

You may not reach your dreams, but hey, at least you didn't wait ten years to go and try.

G-Tech Corporation wrote:Jobs are a finite resource?

Wut.

I'm not personally pro-open borders, but I prefer a large enough immigration quota to conceivably deal with all qualified applicants.

I largely agree.

Jobs are not a finite resource, but middle-class jobs are, because they require education. Open borders would attract immigrants from the developing world, which would statistically increase the number of largely uneducated US citizens. That would increase the number of low-paying jobs compared to the number of middle-class jobs.

Now, open borders would not make those middle-class jobs disappear, or even sincrease the unemployment rate - at least not significantly. But open borders undoubtedly would diminish the gap between the average American income and the average income globally - mostly by lowering the average American income. That has some worrying implications for native-born American poor people (Sanders' point), but it also has worrying implications for the economic culture of the nation: it would create an immigrant underclass and an educated, native-born upper class, one of which would grow at a much greater rate than the other. It's not surprising that few politicians would support such a plan.

Personally, my key issues as a voter have to do with foreign policy. The fact that Sanders voted against the '91 Gulf War, and continues to defend that vote, is extremely disturbing to me. The fact that Sanders hasn't voted to fund the military for the last four years is even more alarming. When the Senate was weighing intervention in Syria to halt Assad's use of chemical weapons, Sanders asserted that the money we would spend on bombing chemical-weapons facilities would be better spent on rebuilding infrastructure at home.

You see, the nativist strand of Sanders' thinking has nothing to do with immigration and everything to do with resource allocation. Sanders has made it clear that he would redirect federal funding toward domestic projects like universal healthcare and free college education, even at the cost of limiting America's global influence and allowing crimes against humanity to continue unchecked. Sanders calls on our allies to help police the world, but he has no suggestions about how to make them do that. His position starts to look an awful lot like: "The US cannot be the world's policeman, so we're going to tell our allies to help - and if they don't, then I guess it's too bad about all those crimes against humanity."

Personally, I find that shortsighted, and selfish to the point of moral reprehensibility. The man does not have my vote.

Oh yes.

In my eyes, Sanders' foreign policy program is almost at the same level of Ron Paul's suggestion to put a million dollar bounty on the heads of Al Qaeda instead of taking direct action in the aftermath of 9/11.

Also, as a geopolitical Russophobe who resides in Europe, the notion of US presence in the continent being diminished is nothing but extremely worrying.

Nightkill the emperor

I'd like American influence in Asia to balance out China.

On the one hand, I agree with Sanders that infrastructure investment is a thing we should really do.

On the other hand, abandoning anything past our borders to do so smacks of lunacy, not reason. Like it or not, this world is a big interconnected mess. It's a platitude for a reason, but the only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.

The U.S. isn't "good". But it's actions in the world tend to be better than the alternative- an ascendant antagonistic China stepping all over China, novo-Putin turning Eastern Europe into a region of frozen conflicts and corrupt kleptocracies, and Daesh slaughtering anyone they feel like while cynical Muslim politicians use it as a rabid dog to justify destroying any political opponents.

For instance, our entire policy in Syria is a mess and a half. I support any politician who can grow a pair (even Hillary, metaphorically, though I won't be voting for her for other reasons).

Nightkill the emperor wrote:I'd like American influence in Asia to balance out China.

Less balance, more outright dominance. Geopolitical bipolarity (eg. the Cold War, the Great Game in the 19th Century) tends to breed much more violence than more hegemonical geopolitical assects. Pax Romana et all.

Nightkill the emperor

Agritum wrote:Less balance, more outright dominance. Geopolitical bipolarity (eg. the Cold War, the Great Game in the 19th Century) tends to breed much more violence than more hegemonical geopolitical assects. Pax Romana et all.

No - I want India to have outright dominance. :P

Nightkill the emperor wrote:No - I want India to have outright dominance. :P

That might not be the worst. America could use a few less theaters to contain crazy dictatorships in.

Now if only you can convince your government telling China to feck off with their territorial claims is the way forward.

Nationstatelandsville

Nightkill the emperor wrote:No - I want India to have outright dominance. :P

Hiyah, friend!

I'm going to agree with Khan here that the American interests are very firmly in counterinterests against Russia (which is a f*cking mess anyhow) and China. And India actually is the key to that -- India being equipped to surpass China in economy and population within the next few decades, but being relatively neutral and underdeveloped. Right now, India is torn between the two "sides", leaning slightly towards the others. If the United States were to more heavily invest in India and surrounding nations, we would do ourselves a tremendous favor in securing economic opportunity and political security in the future.

What I'm saying is that Obama and Modi need to hug again.

My news on Obama/Modi are stuck on last year when the US apparently carried out this big time weapons deal which also made it the main supplier of armaments to the country, usurping Russia's place.

Or something like that.

Nationstatelandsville

Agritum wrote:My news on Obama/Modi are stuck on last year when the US apparently carried out this big time weapons deal which also made it the main supplier of armaments to the country, usurping Russia's place.

Or something like that.

I don't believe we currently are, but definitely we should be.

We'd really quite like India to like us more and Putin less.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/india-chooses-sikorsky-for-1-billion-military-helicopter-deal-1417867938

I always chuckle when I remember that Sikorsky is an American firm.

Agritum wrote:http://www.wsj.com/articles/india-chooses-sikorsky-for-1-billion-military-helicopter-deal-1417867938

I always chuckle when I remember that Sikorsky is an American firm.

We trick everyone who hates America into thinking they're buying from the Great Northern Satan instead of the Great White Satan.

Nightkill the emperor

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2015/07/30/india-will-have-the-worlds-largest-population-earlier-than-expected-u-n-says/

Well.

Nightkill the emperor

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-33697932

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