WA Delegate (non-executive): The Republic of United Districts of the Republican State (elected 5 days ago)
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Libertarian Regional Message Board
I do not have a "Hobbesian view of man" - some people behave well, some people behave badly. I asked QUESTION - how is the culture developing?
For example how much of the United States is still a "guilt culture" - where each INDIVIDUAL is concerned with their own conscience, and much of the United States (and other Western countries) is now a "shame culture" - where as long as other people are doing something (as a mob) people just join in ("well my neighbours are doing it").
Unless you (as an individual) are prepared to die to defend the life and goods of a STRANGER (someone you have never met before) from a mob - then civilisation will fall.
And that means taking the risk of ending up face down in the gutter dead - so much less difficult to say to one's self "well it is a big supermarket - they must have insurance" or "well they will not hurt the girl too bad - they just want some fun".
We all have darkness within us (I certainly have - a lot of it). It is a question of resisting it.
Not doing the right thing when everyone will praise you for doing it - but doing the right thing when you know you are likely to end up dying gagging on your own vomit (with the laughter of the mob being the last thing you hear).
Enough people prepared to take that risk - then civilisation stands.
But humans are born peaceful & are only corrupted through their parents if the parents take the authoritarian path of guidance.
You said you don't have a Hobbesian view of the nature of mankind but you just said "we all have darkness within us" that's the Hobbesian view of inherent evil in mankind.
Im trying to understand exactly what your saying but your post is fleeting me.
As a Christian, I believe that man is born into a fallen state and only the influence of Christian principles can change him into a moral and noble being.
Yea I don't want to start a religious/spiritual war but did you ever think that the bible could have been written by men who sought power through the many rules. For instance the bible teaches that man is fallen & that he needs gods grace to become sin free, so while man is on his spiritual journey to become sin free he needs protection from other fallen men so what better way to do this than through the state, so the state is crowned divinely authorized by the bible to use the sword or in other words initiate the use of force against its subjects but let's cloak it in peace & love from a Deity.
I don't believe man is born with a chaotic nature I think they are born peaceful but turn aggressive through the environment there raised in & how there parents treat & teach them in regards to punishment, problem solving & behavior.
I suspect that both are true. Many times, men have used the church to seize power over others. That's why I don't like organized religion.
It occurs to me that - maybe - both ideas are correct - both peaceful and chaotic factors within human nature exist.
These may be relevant:
60 Minutes "Are Kids Born Good Or Evil?": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QLYRDsJADgg
Stephan Molyneux answers "What is Evil?": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l9IUj3mXdN8
Stephan Molyneux on the cycle of child abuse: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLB3F2CF45EEB95C80
Steven Pinker on trends in violence throughout human history: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ramBFRt1Uzk
Dennis Prager on 10 hypothesized root causes of evil: http://www.creators.com/opinion/dennis-prager/why-do-people-do-evil.html
Again meant no disrespect. I Personally am a Panendeist, I believe there is a deity & that the universe is a part of him but not fully him. I use him but it could be a her or it.
I am very familiar with Stefan Molyneux & his work there is one podcast he did about someone saying people are born evil & he shows how a mass murderer wasn't evil but through his childhood environment he became corrupted