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WA Delegate: The Blablabla of Anarchyst (elected 2 days 21 hours ago)

Founder: Whipjangle

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Visit a region where you can gain the benefit of a small group of like minded players, but with no other restrictions, where your rights end at the tip of the other guy's nose and where smaller government is better government, and no government (aside from national defense and regional dispute resolution) is best of all.

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Libertarian contains 24 nations, the 459th most in the world.


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As a region, libertarian is ranked 1,030th in the world for Largest Defense Forces.

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Carl Menger was an interventionist in some ways (for example he was in favour of government schools - which had existed in Austria for a century by his time), however he was free market by modern standards (no more an interventionist than Barry Goldwater or Ronald Reagan).

Carl Menger was really about theoretical economics (methodology) taking those principles to their logical conclusions was undertaken by the next generation - principally by Ludwig Von Mises (1881- 1973 - he was active to an unusually advanced age, still doing good work as late as 1966).

FJK - your "simple fact" is PARTLY counter factual.

I agree that government interest rate cuts are crazy (hair-of-the-dog economics - like trying to cure a hang over by drinking).

But government infrastructure spending is ALSO crazy.

Warren Harding (the most smeared American President in history) did not launch infrastructure schemes (as Commerce Sec Herbert Hoover wanted) when the World War One credit bubble burst in 1921 - he (Harding) cut government spending in half (from six billion Dollars to three billion Dollars) and the economy was in recovery in six months.

In the 1930s (both under Franklin Roosevelt - and under Herbert "The Forgotten Progressive" Hoover) there was endless "infrastructure" spending - and mass unemployment continued. It was only broken by the disguised WAGE CUTTING of World War II - the government pretended that wages were not being cut, because it measured them against official prices (not REAL "black market" prices) - in reality REAL wages were hammered during World War II (and unemployment vanished). In the late 1940s there was real wage growth and still (basically) full employment - because the economy was finally really improving (thanks to the so called "Do Nothing Congress" elected in 1946).

This "infrastructure" government spending obsession really depresses me - even the constant paving over of Japan does not seem to have removed it from the minds of people.

Of course an "infrastructure bank" would mix both forms of insanity - fiscal insanity and monetary (credit bubble) insanity.

Post Keynesians are very similar to Austrians especially Ludwig Lachmann & Shackle(Who is a mix of both). Minsky's Financial instability hypothesis fits into the frame of ABCT specifically the 'Minsky Moment'. So there is a big difference between the Post Keynesians & the Neo/New Keynesians.

Also Menger supported public works, prevention of child labor, subsidies to agriculture & regulation of forest clearing.

Yes indeed - as I said Carl Menger was about economic theory (applying it was for the next generation) - but by the standards of today (or even of his own time) he was not a big government man.

As for saying Minsky is "like......" - no doubt he is. But that does not really reply to the points I made.

That other people share an error does not make it not an error.

For example, Carl Menger was clearly wrong about "public works" and farming subsidies (even though it supported very mild ones by modern standards) - and the fact that his name was "Carl Menger" does not alter that.

paul marks.
you are close to factual, but not quite.
WW2 was paid for by debt to the american tax payer, at the time. the huge govt spending did not produce the usual inflation, due to americans putting all their money into war bonds, which had a negative return.
the issue with japan is that the banks are kaput. their balance sheets hold bad debt. the govt of japan needs to buy the bond debt, freeing up the bank capital. a story from a mate said that deutche bank does not want to leave japan, even though it would improve the return on japanese bonds. Otherwise, they would look bad, reduce the stock price, as they would be questioned of why deutche bank left the improving finance sector of japan. This paradox is a problem only the govt can solve.

Government shouldn't guarantee banks solvency - plain and simple. Why if I go broke while playing in Vegas casino government doesn't bail me out of my "bad investments"? How exactly average citizen is different from a bank? Easy, banks bribe politicians with election campaign donations, while average Joe won't. Its socialized costs and privatized profits. Society doesn't owe banks anything, FJK. Let them fall. Inefficient companies failing is not a flaw in free market, its the whole point of free market.

@Paul Yes I read what you said about Menger I simply posted what he supported because I couldn't remember them off hand in my first part.

Why are you so defensive I wasn't directing this entire post at you yet you feel as if I did. It is attached to my previous post where I asked claramas if he had Post-Keynesian leanings. If I had directed it at you then I would have responded to you point by point no doubt about that. Please ease up on the siege mentality.

Why am I "defensive" Umwahwah?

Simple enough - you implied you admired Minsky. Now if I have not got the wrong end of the stick on that - that makes you a foe of someone who thinks all lending should be from real savings.

FJK Rants - wrong. There was inflation during World War II - the government just hid it with its price controls. The real prices being "black market" ones of course - and real wages falling during World War II (the real reason unemployment vanished.

Snifkowland - quite correct, if a money lender (which is all a "bank" should be) can not pay cash-on-the-nail then it should go bankrupt (really bankrupt - close its doors and sell the furniture).

Bailing out banks (either openly - or in the hidden corrupt ways that are normally favoured) just makes the folly grow bigger and bigger. Central banks (such as the Federal Reserve) should not exist - period.

By the way visit Venice if you can (I believe it is where the saying "pay on the nail" comes from) it is a remarkable place - not just St Mark's Square, all of it (spend a couple of days there).

A Republic that lasted a thousand years - unlike the United States which is falling into a double trap (the credit bubble financial system and the out-of-control Welfare State) already.

The European Union Central Bank is pushing even more Corporate Welfare (artificially low interest rates and, indeed, debt buying). Just like the Federal Reserve, the Bank of England, the Bank of Japan.....

What we are seeing is an effort to create "capitalism" without capitalists - without REAL savers (people who make a sacrifice-sacrifice-of-consumption in the hope of future gain), instead the governments of the world (via their Central Banks) are offering the rich the ability to get richer without making any sacrifice of consumption at all - to have their cake, and to eat it as well.

Ludwig Von Mises said that the study of economics was "value free" - so all an economist can say is that this is a mistaken policy.

But economists are also human beings - and any human being (worthy of the name) should recognise that this policy is obscenely corrupt.

@Paul dude you got a fu*kin problem, your making Strawmen & attacking them. I never implied nor said I admire Minsky I said Minsky's biggest ideas fit well into the Austrian business cycle theory. You argue just for arguments sake, not everyone's out to get you Paranoic.

Umwahwah - fair enough my dear Sir.

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