Laissez Faireholm RMB

WA Delegate: The Motors of Lincoln Sydney (elected )

Founder: Distruzio

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Rudest Citizens: 254th Most Armed: 342nd Lowest Overall Tax Burden: 373rd+27
Largest Soda Pop Sector: 390th Highest Crime Rates: 408th Largest Pizza Delivery Sector: 462nd Most Nations: 507th Highest Wealthy Incomes: 599th Largest Retail Industry: 606th Greatest Rich-Poor Divides: 607th Fattest Citizens: 666th Largest Gambling Industry: 780th Largest Information Technology Sector: 835th Most Rebellious Youth: 882nd Highest Economic Output: 972nd Largest Publishing Industry: 995th Most Scientifically Advanced: 1,011th Most Avoided: 1,049th Highest Unexpected Death Rate: 1,206th Highest Average Incomes: 1,402nd Most World Assembly Endorsements: 1,404th Largest Mining Sector: 1,429th Smartest Citizens: 1,649th Most Influential: 1,683rd Largest Timber Woodchipping Industry: 1,774th Most Cultured: 1,826th Most Extreme: 1,834th Most Extensive Civil Rights: 1,846th Highest Drug Use: 1,971st Largest Insurance Industry: 1,981st
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Welcome! This is a region conceived for the libertarian minded - the belief that liberty is the primary virtue of humanity and that the State should be minimized to the greatest possible extent.

Anyone who believes in individual free will is welcome. Here you'll find the cure for stateholm syndrome.

Please endorse our regional WA Delegate, The Motors of Lincoln Sydney

Liberty is not a means to a political end. It is itself the highest political end.
- Lord Acton

The ideal Government of all reflective men, from Aristotle onward, is one which lets the individual alone one which barely escapes being no government at all.
- H.L. Mencken

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Regional Power: Moderate

Laissez Faireholm contains 30 nations, the 507th most in the world.

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Today's World Census Report

The Most Primitive in Laissez Faireholm

Nations were ranked by World Census officials based on the number of natural phenomena attributed to the unknowable will of animal-based spirit gods.

As a region, Laissez Faireholm is ranked 19,874th in the world for Most Primitive.

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Laissez Faireholm Regional Message Board

Walmart is not an "arm of the state" and it is not large business enterprises that want to discriminate anyway.

It is small "mom and pop" stores that might want to (for example) not bake a cake for a Gay Wedding.

As for IBM (and so on) in relation to National Socialist Germany.

Like Dr Hammer (the big business man who helped the Soviets for decades) there is a difference between what is legal and what is moral.

It was indeed legal to trade with the Nazis and the Marxists - but it was not the moral thing to do.

Not moral because one would use your stuff for bad things.

It is like trading with the Castro Brothers now.

Mr Obama may want it to be legal - but that does not mean it is moral.

If you receive statist subsidies and statist privileges, are you an entity that arisen/floats naturally in the free market and therefore can be hold unaccountable for stepping over the little guy? (Mom and pop stores.)

Large businesses can totally get away with discrimination much more than mom & pop stores, particularly if their profits are protected by the state. They receive money free the state anyway, and if they start losing profit they can always call upon their daddy to protect them. This gives them a lot of unnecessary weight to push around. I think libertarians should be a little stricter on corporations (that the left rightfully chides us for). It is not a free market if businesses are protected from their "mistakes."

Preferably, I'd like for the playing ground to be absolutely level, where mom & pop stores can service anyone they wish, but it becomes a bit more complex in our current society where we have an unequal market that gives large corporations power to disenfranchise large amounts of people for no reason. Instead of focusing on the rights for businesses to discriminate as they wish, we should first target and eliminate subsidies, tax credits, and the various legal privileges granted to corporations first.

The Libertarian Republic of The Liberated Territories wrote:If you receive statist subsidies and statist privileges, are you an entity that arisen/floats naturally in the free market and therefore can be hold unaccountable for stepping over the little guy? (Mom and pop stores.)
Large businesses can totally get away with discrimination much more than mom & pop stores, particularly if their profits are protected by the state. They receive money free the state anyway, and if they start losing profit they can always call upon their daddy to protect them. This gives them a lot of unnecessary weight to push around. I think libertarians should be a little stricter on corporations (that the left rightfully chides us for). It is not a free market if businesses are protected from their "mistakes."
Preferably, I'd like for the playing ground to be absolutely level, where mom & pop stores can service anyone they wish, but it becomes a bit more complex in our current society where we have an unequal market that gives large corporations power to disenfranchise large amounts of people for no reason. Instead of focusing on the rights for businesses to discriminate as they wish, we should first target and eliminate subsidies, tax credits, and the various legal privileges granted to corporations first.

There is no reason why we cannot argue for both.

Elwher

The Republic of Gyoat wrote:That's fair, the Germans weren't breaking their laws.
The problem is if you only hold a group accountable to their own laws, then dictators can do whatever they want, and say it's legal. When dealing with international issues, you have to apply some sort of general laws against things like murder.
By the argument you gave we shouldn't have been able to put any German's on trial afterwards, but we did.


I happen to agree with your last conclusion, we should not have been able to put any of the Germans on trial with the possible exception of those who actually made the policies or those, if any, who exceeded their legal authority in carrying them out. The fact that we did it does not make it right, any more than the fact that the Germans did what they did mad that right.

The Allied States of James McCosh wrote:Walmart is not an "arm of the state" and it is not large business enterprises that want to discriminate anyway.
It is small "mom and pop" stores that might want to (for example) not bake a cake for a Gay Wedding.
As for IBM (and so on) in relation to National Socialist Germany.
Like Dr Hammer (the big business man who helped the Soviets for decades) there is a difference between what is legal and what is moral.
It was indeed legal to trade with the Nazis and the Marxists - but it was not the moral thing to do.
Not moral because one would use your stuff for bad things.
It is like trading with the Castro Brothers now.
Mr Obama may want it to be legal - but that does not mean it is moral.


But, under the current law, if one does what one believes is moral, i.e. not sell one's products to someone who will use them in what one believes is an immoral fashion, one is guilty of discrimination and can be sued. Unless you believe in an absolute morality, you should allow individuals the right to sell or not sell their products to whoever they please.

James McCosh

*a barman opens the door to the Bar on the Corner with a big grin on his face*

Ladies and Gentlemen! *bows*, I'd be honored to welcome you as guests in our facilities! This is a bar in your region! So you can access it conveniently from here (via embassy). No need to move your tired bodies! Isn't that awesome! The first guest of every region gets a drink for free!

*holds the door open with one hand while it so happened that he is holding a bottle of your favorite drink in the other hand*

Take a seat and enjoy a drink, or have fun with pool billiard, darts and the gambling machines. We also serve some delicious choice of food!

Btw, let me know if you know how to mix drinks. Trust me, people here are very generous with tips! And folks always fall in love with the person handling the cocktail shaker ; )

*you immediately know that you would sell you soul for a starvation wage but you feel tempted. Do you? It's a luxury to have the possibility to be a bartender via embassy! Just look at this wall of bottles behind the counter. amazing*

Sibirsky

The question is, why try to force them to sell? If they refuse to sell, then they are really just hurting themselves, because they will get less business and a worse reputation. A person who shows discrimination is likely to go out of business in today's society because of the sheer amount of negative reputation they would receive anyway. Let people decide who to sell to and if they kill their own business that's their fault.

James McCosh and Elwher

"State subsidies" to business are a tiny part of the budget - less than 1%.

But O.K. ABOLISH them - no more "Export Import Bank" and so on.

That would not effect the behaviour of "Mon and Pop stores" (the sort of business enterprise that wants to "discriminate") as they do not get these subsidies anyway.

As for "state privileges" - this is the old fallacy that "limited liability" is a "gift from the state".

First most "Mom and Pop" business enterprises are NOT "limited liability corporations anyway - so the people who actually want to "discriminate" do not actually get this so called "privilege".

But it is not a "privilege" anyway - actually limited liability is a voluntary thing (on one has to trade with such a "body corporate").

It is also ancient.

Churches, clubs, societies, colleges (all of which engaged in production and trade) were and are all bodies corporate (one does not sue the individual members) and everyone knowns, in advance, that the only the money belonging to the association (the money in the trading pot as it were) is available for legal action.

A "trust" in Common Law may also traditionally be set up without any permission of the state - people who think that this is a "gift of the state" are just wrong.

And if you really (for example) do not like buying insurance from a limited liability company then go to a syndicate of "names" (individuals who agree to stand by the insurance with their own money) - you will have to pay a HIGHER PRICE - but if you want people to (literally) "risk their shirts" you should expect to pay a higher price.

Next we will hear how roads are really "government subsidies to big business" - as if there could not be private roads or railroads.

And if railroads were the main way of moving around then people and business enterprises would concentrate near them - you would have "Walmart" and so on (so much for big business being the creation of government).

The inventions that transformed industry in the industrial revolution (such as Josiah Wedgewood in the pottery industy) were NOT the work of the state.

The industrial revolution was NOT the work of the state and it was NOT a bad thing.

And paid voluntary employment is not "serfdom to big business" or any of the rest of the nonsense tha "libertarian left" come out with.

The American philosophy of "Pragmatism" the denial of principles of universal objective truth (and reasoning from these principles) and the belief that Strong Leadership can get the people anything their hearts desire (if they want something badly enough) is essentially the same philosophy that led to Fascism in so many European countries. And it is no good just blaming Democrats for this sort of Sorel and Mussolini type thinking (see J. Goldberg "Liberal Fascism") Primary election results show that much of the Republican base is infected by the same Pragmatism.

The denial of principles of objective and universal truth (and reasoning from these principles) and the belief that one can have anything one wants if one wants it hard enough (the "philosophy" of a three year old) is what Donald Trump, and his supporters, are all about.

Violan

Regional Community News: Issue #25 LGBT+ Spectrum and Un-hue.
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